Question How 'serious' should we treat LN/WN and webtoons?

Personally, I don't read LN, WN, or webtoon for anything beyond entertainment. I like the stories and the variety that the medium provides. Even if those studies tend to be absurd. I can bounce to one genre to another if I feel like it. I liked anime when I was young ( along time ago) so I am used to the absurd. I am also a fanfic reader so I could say I'm well exposed to writers/authors with varying degrees of treatment of story elements.

When I stumbled upon NU, I felt it was a good place for discussion and I contributed to the works that I was invested into. I noticed that many readers are passionate, which is good. But I wonder if we should we treat LN, WN, or webtoons in the same way as 'real' novels i.e. Three Musketeers. Les Mis, Moby Dick etc . Like we have threads and pages of discussion dissecting characters and plotlines. It just like lit class except we're discussing as readers of work.

I guess by treating them as such, the medium off LN, NW and webtoon can be elevated and their production/writing will be more ''grown up'?

I put a poll so everybody can cast their vote. Feel free to reply if you want to answer directly or expand on your poll answer.

 

i though the whole thing about light novels was that they arent as heavy as normal novels (absolutely no pun intended though) without having to bullshit "analysis" on "why the author used this symbolism because of how he felt that day about trees" and all that other pseudo-intellectual bull.

When lit analysis had to be done in school, it was basically a class in making up bullshit because how are people supposed to know what exactly the author had in mind while writing... we arent foching mind readers through time and space.

 

The last time someone tried to make mature material, we got the Disney SW trilogy and TLOU2. No thanks, I'd rather that the story remain entertaining for the readers instead of "exploring" serious topics in an attempt to be a literary classic.

Yeah, those are double quotes because they sure as hell aren't researching whatever they're supposed to be exploring.

 

Do you treat a movie like Scary Movie or Space Jam the same way you would treat The Godfather?

You are trying to put an entire medium into a category and ignoring the hundreds of types of stories in those mediums.

The stories get treated differently by their quality and style not just because they exist must they all be treated the same

 

Yo man, I’m like 14 and this novel is totally deep yo.

 

And why should they? The "mature" novel industry itself already exists in Japan. If the author really wants to write a more "mature" novel, they can already do so without support from "immature" readers.

 

The reason why I love reading LN/WN/Webtoon/manga is because I can throw away my brain while reading them. They are best for entertaining. Your imagination can run wild, your emotions can blend in the story, sometimes even your critical and philosophical thinking can kick in too.
I don't mean LN/WN/stuffs should not 'mature' though. We certainly have dozens of stories that are better than many publicized works, depending on how we see them. It just a matter of taste.

 

I don't think it matters much

 

A bunch of thoughts:
There were 'real' novels that were translated, critically acclaimed Wuxia novels, in China by writers like Jin Yong. There's an entire fantasy and sci-fi novel industry in China that isn't part of the webnovel industry.

So I'd start by pointing out the majority of WN/LN's though aren't making an attempt at that any more than writers of the Hardy Boys were trying to write Moby Dick.

I'm not sure translators are really looking for highbrow novels to translate. Few people read them in English unless forced to by teachers. I also doubt most of them would be highly rated on NU's rating system so if they are being translated they wouldn't rise to the top. So finding them might be hard. But there are likely the equivalent of English Majors writing the Great American Novel working hard on their Great Chinese Novel.

Could you analyze some of the works of the I Eat Tomatoes? Sure, many are complete. But I don't think you will get as much out of it as novels that an author spent a decade writing as an art form instead of entertainment.

 

ha?
you can make serious discussion for any entertainment if you want to, from certain angle~ will it become more mature? meh only if you can affect author and publisher directly~ on this case WN on original english~
we can analyze plot, character, background, writing style, culture around country of origin which affect the story, market ect~ if you want hold such discussion feel free to do it~

 

Every reader has their type as well so..

 

well i am not a lit student because my parents forced me into engineering (lol) but i really enjoy reading heavy and deep books?(and poetry too, i think there's a certain magic some authors have with words) i also like analysis and critical opinions. but i just turn that part of my brain off when i read these kind of stories since i think i just read them for fun and enjoyment and they don't require a critical analysis from my side per se. unless they have pretty big problems i don't think of them critically.

 

Harry Potter was NOT written to be a 'heavy' or an 'intellectual' story. You could see that from the level of intelligence the main character has and the mostly black-and-white morality the book presented itself (Severus Snape being a notable exception).

However, with the growth of fans (both in age and numbers), they began to see things differently. They dig up the passages and tried to see what's behind the words. Some are truly what Rowling means, some are the epitome of "The Death of Authors" line of thinking.

This shows that in analysing literature it doesn't really matter how "deep" it's meant to be or what target audience it supposed to reach, but how the audience "process" it.

Light novels, webnovels, and whatever else are good as they are.

 

If the novel is well written enough, why not discuss it in detail. And if it's not well written enough then you wouldn't get very far anyways.

 

There's not really a sharp dividing line between "serious" and "entertaining" literature, most historical novels people now consider "serious" were written to be entertaining, and its pretty common practice in academic studies to take seriously pop culture the same as any other literature (because its an expression of what people are interested in, imagining, and thinking about at any given time in history, which is interesting and important, and still fun). The whole "looking for symbolism" idea of literary analysis isn't really taken much seriously and its just a thing high school teachers do to get kids to write something about books they read, or a way certain people try to impress other people who aren't used to analyzing literature.

Everyone who reads literature is interested in experiencing something different, whether it be learn about other experiences in the world or just in where the author's imagination goes. Analysis and deeper reading is just a result when you read a lot and start comparing things and noticing historical context and what different authors are focusing on and doing differently.

If you just read casually, to get lost in a story and don't care to think too far beyond that that's fine. But its not like people analyzing literature are not doing that either, they're just taking time to compare and notice other aspects. So spend your time how you like it, but if you enjoy thinking about some things and how the world works, you might enjoy thinking about books work and what their place in the world is.

 

These are excellent points. And this very thread demonstrates how true they are. "The Three Musketeers" is a very illustrative example here: it was written by Alexandre Dumas and Dumas was the web novelist of his day for how much he'd write and how quickly he released his works. Same thing with Jin Yong and how he'd published new material on a daily basis. Not every writer is like GRRM who slaves for years on a single manuscript before releasing it.

Same thing with the idea about symbolism - it's a fun exercise, but it's hardly a necessary one. Things like characterization, world building, descriptive writing, and the like are far more important. On a similar note, I'd also say that story elements that get a lot of attention, like plot holes, aren't all that important either. Great observations!

 

Good examples, I would actually encourage anyone here who thinks there's a big divide between classics and contemporary webnovels to try reading Dumas's The Count of Monte Cristo. Its not incredibly similar to a lot of popular webnovel revenge plots.

 

Wow, we have a lively thread...I'm kicking my work off for a sec...

I actually like light novels, web novels and webtoons as they are. Back then, I have the patience and time for reading 3 paperback novels but work definitely changed that. However, I did noticed in the discussion threads and spoiler threads that some readers have questions. of course, some readers who understood or knew the answers were good to respond and clarify. Which is the reason I likened it to a lit class.

On bolded part. When reading spoiler/discussion threads, readers do the exact same thing. Some wonder why the author did that, or why this character did this thing, why did author include this and that...Of course, it's a mainly a round of rhetorical questions but since authors cant exactly reply. readers are left to their understanding which will also determined their enjoyment of the work. I'm not saying that understanding the behind the scenes will make the readers love the work, it;s just my exp that what I intend or goal to write as an author is sometimes missed by my readers so there's clearly a disconnect.

Re:actual lit class. I ha a fun teacher so i guess class I enjoyed mine better than others.

I don't know about Star Wars but I heard about the controversy. I also heard about TLOU2 and I decided not to buy it due to story (l read the leaks) . I'm not a fan of subvert expectations but as a consumer at this exchange, I wont give them my money at the same time, I cant dictate Johnson or Druckman's vision.

I also prefer being entertained when consuming other media products. My brain cells are almost always in coma after days of writing.

I agree on your last line. However, my argument isn't classifying the medium or condensing it. My argument is if we treat the medium and its by-product not just as entertainment products but also materials for analysis. I love them for keeping me entertainment but the amount of analysis and discussion as evidenced by their respective threads me me think about the topic.

As deep as you can go...

This is so relatable.

I agree with taste and I agree about not turning your brain on when reading these materials. I do also have fun when I interact with other readers on analyzing context and world building.

I think I got the gist of your reply but I'm gonna check out the titles you mentioned for proper context.

I think this is what some readers are really missing. Most of readers here on NU or even third party translation can express their feelings towards a work. Anyone can express their feedback about a work. However, some readers dont see the 'business side' which is the work will be influenced if it affects the sales. So if the target market likes the work enough but the extended market (third parties) didn't, the latter will find itself to be disappointed.

Yup.

You don't have to be a lit student but I do agree that sometimes, turning my brain off to enjoy some ridiculous reading material is also satisfying.

Good. Harry Potter was one of my must haves (as in i nagged my parents to death to collect all books). For me, it was an enjoyable read while other resources did provide me with the deconstruction of the material, I still want Harry Potter to entertain me first. Same with the movies. I also agree on how the readers 'process' it. Books are part 'art' and part product. I learned that hard lesson when I first started out. Yes, creating a story have style and everything but if you're publishing, it better make money.

I dont think it's a matter of access or permission. My point was does LN/WN/webtoon as materials can be elevated, especially in the writing part. I know many readers are frustrated when an author uses trite tropes (esp on characters) or the same storyline but with a different cast. Or less using devleoped vilalins or protags. For me, sure it can be enriched by using more techniques but if the material is tied to sales, I have to put my editor and publisher in the picture.
or

I can write the trashy stuff, earn money and write my opus when i dont have to worry about editors and sales.

Love love this response.

Fudged. I remembered I was pulling my hair coz I dont get Dumas' themes in Three Musketeers. Nobody in my class has any ideas. This was before the Internet and no cliff notes. My age is showing...

 

And again you're treating the medium as a whole rather than as a medium made of dozens and even hundreds of styles and categories. If you compare to western lit do you really think every western novel needs deep analysis? Do you equally analyze The Hungry Catepillar to the same extent as Macbeth? Analysis of novels doesn't happen just because someone writes a novel but because that novel is both interesting and "deep" enough that readers are inclined to break it down in discussion. You can't force it. It has to happen organically and this medium of online novels and light novels for the most part doesn't have the quality as whole to cause that to happen to the same extent as older works both westerns and eastern.