I now understand why cliches of arrogant nobles exists!

Ok, so I at times I got really annoyed at cliched that made no sense why they kept appearing over & over again hundreds of times in the same novels. For e.g.... I wondered why we have spineless mc, all normal & etc in japanese novels/manga/anime, it's because it's how society & culture would portray the average japanese, more humble, reserved & etc... thus, this was exaggerated in japanese fiction as most japanese see themselves something similar(even the author), thus it could sell more.

Now, I am proud to finally come up with the answer why we keep having the cliche of arrogant nobles or arrogant, snoby sub tier villains. It's communism!! (mods, I am not here to debate politics but rather make a analysis of a cliche'd archetype in chinese novels)
It's communism... think about it! It makes all sense... we have a person who is common, underappreciated & devalued (basically, how communism portrays the people, the workforce). Then, we have the elites who disdain the average person, full of arrogance & evil deeds... thus, we have the elites that communists view as their enemy & goal to surpass! So the countless arrogant twats that always appear full of themselves & disdain everyone is how communists or a communist society views the world... it's normal for people like that to appear.
Ironically, on a unconscious level... once the mc gets really powerful, they too use their power to scaremonger others & show their authority through force. Thus, again it's how communists rule over people.

In the end. I have finally figured concept that was really annoying & I kept thinking "why". I am here to share my discovery. If someone believe it is something else, please free to share or if they don't agree, please say why(i'll read but I am too lazy to respond & I don't want it to risk being banned by debating politics when this thread is not about that).
Also, another reason cliched villains exist as catalysts to boost grow or create development/determination but that applies not too just cliched elite noble arrogant twats.

 

....
man you realy digging the hole to deep
easy answer to why the cliche arrogant young masters are common
its easy to write it and its feel good when mc beat the young master (at least in the first x times)

 

This is the reaction of someone who has discovered the meaning of life. Congratulations fellow daoist

 

As much as I appreciate the extra nuffies, shit posts should go into general chat, not novel general.

That said, it goes without saying there is more wrong written here than right... the silliness of communism aside, most JP MCs are beat due to:
1) Use of tropes without thinking about tropes
2) Getting a rated everyone so they can target larger audience

It's simply a matter of economics, they write what sells to the largest audience.

 

There is an even better reason why this cliche exists, it's because it's a true cliche.

Serfs and commoners weren't Lord's loyal subjects, but a property who worked on their field. Would you view your property as equal to you?
At some point, these inbreed shits went as far as thinking that their right to rule was granted by God(early German Empire for ex.).

Nobles thinking that serfs were beneath them was true as well, shitty system and no means of education really made them be bumkins who only thought to go through day by working on field and get wasted in afternoon(cause serf's life wasn't as bad as it's often portrayed) Medieval times are said to be dark ages for a good reason, it really was a step backward in European history(Despite some minor scientific progress which was made mostly by nobles/priests nonetheless).

Rather than asshole nobles, I'm more angry with "good and let's get along" nobles in LNs/Animes, because it makes no sense.
Example being Kenja no Mago, where there is a school which treats everyone equally... well, that's all nice and square, but what if after school a frking noble goes to fellow commoner schoolmate to... let's say execute "Right of the first night"?

@Edit
And communism reason doesn't hold up, because capitalism too, doesn't go well with a nobility system.
@Edit2
As for bitchy MC's... isn't it mainly to appeal to the audience?
Of course, noble going out of his way to make his subjects miserable is exaggerated, because... why.
But noble treating a commoner as inferior being is quite reasonable.

 

It can also be because after the first person wrote it that way and it got acceptance more and more ppl used it because it will gain acceptance between the readers then the authors forgot how to think but still want to keep earning money so they write it over and over again so the novel they are writing can last longer thus obtaining more profit. There are some that just don't have idea of they are doing so they use that cliche all the time.

 

shitpost and low quality at that but (real communism has never been implemented) the answer is quite easy to come to if you have half a brain. It is simple, people wanna feel powerful and nothing gets those almonds activated more than a justice hate boner. A lot of people think those who are rich are assholes cause why couldn't they "the oh so gracious peasants" be successful as they were. When in reality they would do the same if not worse 94% of the time if they were in said position.

 

Op actually does make some sense here (at least in regards to shitty nobles and young master tropes). Maybe they're so common also because it represents their shitty reality?

 

I don't think those shitty authors of those harem ecchi novels have the brain capacity to think of that.
...I think they just wanna make rich people look bad and make their worthless selves into the main character around whom all the girl end up gathering around magically. Or they could even have wanted an MC that started out from the bottom and ends up at the very top by the end...thats what I used to think.

 

It's not about the authors thinking that but rather, they make characters based on how culture & society influence their perspective of themselves & the world. I do think editors or others would have some analytics to it, as they should know their target audience.
I think the japanese one is how society pressures them to be part of society, be normal, fit & being respectful/humble is a big thing.(I remember watching few documentaries on the pressure of education & work). Thus, the author would portray themselves as weakspined normal humble people that become extraordinary with extraordinary experiences. In a way, it represents their desire to step beyond the structures of normal expectation & try to be different. Maybe that's why authors/writers do beyond extravagant stuff to represent the too "normal" society that it has become. Even commercials are over the top as a way to appease that instinct that societal structures restricts to a certain extent.

I was born in a communist country. So, I think that even in western novels... there is that arrogant elitist villain archetype but in chinese fictions, it is a total exaggeration. I think communist society has influenced others to view elitists everywhere.. for e.g. in the western world, we do have disdain & there exist massive elitist idiots who disdain the lower working class... but we don't focus as much as a society/culture on that. They exist but we view them as few compared to how communists view them everywhere nearly. Capitalism has issues too but I'll stop because it gets too political.

Probably I did not get my point across. Communism makes no sense but the only way I could make sense of the over-representation of the copy paste of arrogant nobles or arrogant villains is because how communist society has influenced them. "I'm really a superstar" made me realize this... how the MC was a hero going against powerful elites as a worker, as a communist.... then I realized that in wuxia is the same.

 

Well, I think instead of communists and elitists, it's poorly educated and/or faring "commoners", and rich and "successful" bosses.

The age old dual concept of envy (for commoners) aggravated by entitlement (of ruling/managing class).

Kinda why subservient and self-lowering powerful people are depicted as "good", although it's most likely a big sign of them not really understanding that they are supposed to command and control populace with authority... not by hoping that every single one of the thousands of their subjects are good and altruistic people.

That's just naive.

And if you really think about it, are JP main characters even good people?

They beat up people with cheat powers just because they look shady or don't fit *their* view of good people.

They shirk all responsibility just because they don't want to stand out (failing at it anyway, but just being too stupid to realise it).

They treat women and other people as tools to satisfy their needs. At least I haven't seen many cases where JP MCs have fallen for women's unique personalities, but prefer slave like, subservient and good looking girls that can't think for themselves, so they can assert their dominance over primarily other men.

The very same thing the "bad" nobles they hate do.

And so forth.

In a nutshell, good and bad are very much subjective concepts.

 

+1
Also, look at any modern day CN novel and you'll always see foreigners presented as evil, corrupt, scheming, wanting to destroy "insert name used for expy of china" in some way shape or form. Then you see "insert righteous chinese MC who shows those corrupt, evil outsiders the power of the chinese worker"

 

Oh really want a communist themed story? Try 'Tales of Herding Gods.' MC is a cult master, and his cult's founding ideals is basically helping the common man. His cult is hated in the beginning for going against the heaven's law. The main strong empire of the world is trying to implement reforms based (loosely) on said ideals of his cult.

And honestly, all groups have those elites. In the western world, our elites are SJWs. Who arrogantly try to force their views on you, and if you disagree, they tend to resort to violence. They might not say shit like "I, your father" to you, but fuck, with their nagging they sure as hell think they are.

 

Too deep of a discussion my IQ cannot take it
My thought was just it was brought from arrogance or the sense of superiority peoples have in theirself
Just like genius peoples can never be bother by stupid peoples opinions
Thr same goes for richer peoples can never be bother by ordinary peoples
Honestly it was more strange peoples doesn't have this feelings even ordinary peoples thought themselves higher even though they were among ordinary peoples as well

 

There's a reason why these sorts of sayings exist.

'Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'
'Money is power.'
'Knowledge is power.'
'Who watches the watchers.'

That's just the way it is. Give a man a fish and he'll beat you to death with it to see what else you've got.

As for CN MCs, sure all foreigners are portrayed as evil schemers trying to oppress the average citizen, but their police and government officials are also shown as the same.

 

@defry
In fact, given that that trope is older than communism, or even socialism, that's clearly not the answer. The answer as to why that trope exists is basically that there are and have been for a long time people like those, latching to their families to justify their own arrogance and believing themselves better than the plebs.
If you chack, for example, the Commedia dell'Arte theatre genre, that trope also appears there, in a genre born in Renacentist Italy (well, Italian peninsula at the time), which was not exactly a communist region. Go further back and you can find tropes like those, either in their current form or in the opposite form where the author justifies that attitude as their inborn right, in classical greek and roman literature, just to mention something you can get your hands on easily.
It's true that in a country, a society or just by an author with a socialist-aligned mindset that trope is quite likely to be exploited, but so is it in a feudal society or in a capitalist society (usually by those that fear the dangers of extreme capitalism even if they are capitalists).

 

This right here is why socialism and Communism are still attempted. Cause people are ignorant.

How can you call it a shit post and then reply with your own shit post exposing dumb thoughts.

As for the OP and his thoughts. Yes the authors draw from what they know and their own experience. Couple that with previous works influencing the field and it can seem like it has something to do with Communism or lifestyle but the prevailing tropes don't just exist in cn/jp webnovels or literary works. Even Western novels have these tropes and infact the only reason they aren't as frowned upon by western readers is that novelist tend to have a more subtle approach to the tropes and often the novel will go through rewrites/editing on a much larger scale which helps soften the appearance of the tropes to the readers.

So no it's not Communism that causes it. It is basically taking the feudal system and enlarging it's negatives and without proper rewrites and editing it can be too rough and unpalatable, especially to audiences that grew up consuming Western novels. This is extremely noticable in web novels as the writing is rushed into publication and often receives little to no editing or proofreading.

 

It is a lot simpler than you think.
Unlike the other on here who are rookies, I have sources


Sources:
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/my-dad-is-li-gang-我爸是李刚
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Gang_incident