I want to translate but sadly dont know Japanese, korean, or Chinese lol

Are you sure you replied to the right person?

Anyway, I'd say that for edited MTL to be more worthwhile than just google translate you should at least do some translation checking.

Otherwise you'll get stupid shit like "ice-puck" instead of "ice ball/sphere"*, "water polo" instead of "water ball/ice", "drink" instead of "shout", and countless other things.

You'd probably want to use a CAT tool or something so you can see the raws & translation next to each other (side by side) and compare them.

I'm not sure if there's some online version or anything, I haven't really tried any cat tool myself tbh. But unless there's another alternative to popup dictionaries (e.g. perapera chinese popup dictionary) I'm not sure how you would be able to do any TL checking without knowing chinese. I mean, of course you should also search on google & baidu for things you think might be slang. like you probably might not know that "blood" in game-speak is short for life/health/HP, or "brushing" = "grinding" (and of course there's much less obvious ones as well) and dictionaries won't tell you any of that.


Personally I don't really think you should care about the other stuff besides how you can make your 'translation' "attractive" to readers I guess. Or well it depends on what your goal is I guess. But anyway, there's some nu-policy link somewhere, but I can't be bothered to find it. You just need to know that there's not really anything like that 3 month rule or such, you just need to make consistent updates or translate at least 50 chapters. I'm sure someone will give you a link or maybe you can just search for nu-policy.


*While reading the Doom Lord translation (which to be fair is at least openly saying that it's MTL) I just kept facepalming.

 

Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear.
It’s an ongoing series with 400+ chapters. There’s 193 translated chapters, but they have a backlog of unedited chapters until 250, so they are recruiting.

Many TL websites have recruitment posts once in a while, that was the last one I read:
https://xantandminions.wordpress.com/2018/09/15/recruiting-once-again/

 

Be aware that blatant machine translation will not be listed on NU, if that's what you aim for. Lnmtl is not accepted on NU. But if you want to read it yourself, go ahead. It's your own brain that you're ruining.

My suggestion is for you to learn those languages yourself. It may take half a year, but what you learn will be useful for you in the long run. Machine translation is not useful for you at all and will even be detrimental to your long term language mastery. Ai-chan knows a lot of people whose language mastery and grammar become hot wrecks because of reliance on google translate.

 

Fun fact rainbowturtle (translator of ARK and overgeared) apparently was MTL-ing too, he had a guide on but because people went batshit crazy he took it down.

 

The community was not ready to handle the truth....

 

Well, someone beat me to recommending learning the languages, but yeah, even if you only want to read ahead you definitely should try learning the languages, if you actually try it's not as hard as it seems at first, and you'll be way better off than relying on machine translations. And seriously, with the internet you can learn pretty much anything for free and giving new stuff a try is always worth it.
Also, I'd be really against the idea of publishing MTLd stuff unless someone with actual knowledge of the language checks it, I've already seen people argue in comments calling a translator crap just because google translated a sentence implying a character was on the brink of death, while the translator (and I double checked this) had "he was dead tired" (as in figurative speech) or something like that.

 

You can start learning Chinese at this time.

 

Seeking help on novels related sites should do.

 

Hire a trans, but the editor will determine if you win, or become a pitiful wreck.

Editor must love the series, enough to care to get plots right.
Editor must have BOTH mtl and translated chapter to compare and get it right.
Editor better read and write idiomatic and grammatical English.

You need all that at A MINIMUM!!!

Oh yeah...if you pick a bad series, FSM help you, no one else will.

 

Both MTL and translated chapters.... what?

 

Compare a translated chapter by a human being, and a mtl chapter. Sometimes the translator will make a hash of a sentence, it's up to the editor to correct, with the help of the mtl.

For example, translated Korean is notoriously hard to edit. You need clues, you need another viewpoint. Working with translated document alone won't let you get by, you need to check multiple sources (usually only two, the trans and mtl) to get good chapters out.

Of course, sometimes you get a really good translator. Even then, the mtl is useful as a reference to alternate phrasing, names, sentence structure. Your job as editor is basically rewrite when necessary to put the author's thoughts in another language.

Collaboration software helps, good relations with translator helps, and knowing the plot helps. But at the end of the day, you're sitting down with some hilariously hashed translated sentence submitted by your translator. The only other reference you have is the mtl. That's all.

So is editing crispy. Neglect no tools furthering you editing procedure. (yep, this is the kind of sentences you might get.)

 

Uh... No. The only time you need to resort to MTL to edit something is when the translator is less proficient than the machine. And that only happens if they lack competence in either the language they're translating from or the language they're translating to. In both the aforementioned cases, the end product is no longer a translation. It is reduced to mere fanfiction.

I don't know why you would rely on a machine for alternate phrasing when the machine's output is likely incorrect. The same goes for sentence structure. Any editor that knows their shit should be able to rephrase and restructure the text without referring to an MTL. Your inability to recognize this serves to prove that you don't understand what editing entails, and that you lack mastery over the English language. Of course, tools like Grammarly are well appreciated. Thesauruses are also resources that can and definitely should be used. They help. Writers use them, so editors should too. But having a machine parse the raw text and spit it out at you in a different language results in the editor circumventing the point of a human translation.

And to be frank, rewriting is a part of the translator's job. Translators are responsible for conveying the intended feel of each word and passage to the editor, either through their prose or some sort of additional documentation if necessary. Yes, not every translator is capable of this. And yes, editors also need to rewrite, but that is only once the translator is done with it. The point of an editor is to eliminate the number of passes a proficient translator needs to produce a polished piece of work. To reiterate, any editor rewrite passes should come after the translator's rewrite passes. Of course, this is assuming you're going for polish and have the time to go through something multiple times. Even then, the editor's rewrites should pass through the translator's hands.

tl;dr If an editor ends up thinking that referring to MTL is a good idea, then one of the three scenarios below likely applies.
1) The editor is incompetent.
2) The translator is incompetent
3) Both the translator and editor are incompetent.

 

Rip editor. To have a translator who englishes worse than a machine. I feel sorry for you. Have you considered finding a nicer TLer that doesn't force you to such extreme measures? Also, the post before that one was missing a bunch of articles (Editor must...). I know it's the internet and all, but well, you had everything seem like a complete sentence apart from that... Dropping articles doesn't seem like typical net shorthand in that context. Hope you get better editing material!
-- A Modest Proposal written by an Onion

 

Wow...so lucky...to be only the proofreader.

NOT editor. OK, in an ideal world, you're working with the best translators, who speak, read and write fluently in both languages. In an ideal world, you're using collaborative software, and you have no hard deadlines, you and the translator can edit as many times as you want. In an ideal world, you're not working on translated Korean, which is notoriously difficult. In an ideal world, translators NEVER make mistakes.

I don't live in an ideal world, I'm working on two Korean, with an OK, but not great translator (we have great teamwork, which makes up for a LOT) and I'm proofreading a Japanese novel. Even on the Japanese novel, which has an excellent translator, I've referred to the MTL to clarify things. Clearly I'm not as lucky as you.

An editor, or proofreader has only one task. To deliver readable, understandable, as clear as possible translation to the reader. He or she is likely to be the final authority, depending on the linguistic ability of the translator in BOTH languages.

We're talking real world here, not the ideal world. Translation, mtl and being a fan are what I need and use. Any editor worth his or her salt will use ALL available tools to clarify translation, above all else, clarify and present the author's intent in the prose.

That's why these three tools are sometimes insufficient, and the emails between the editor and translator start flying. Even then, we've had to just bite the bullet, and make guesses about the text. Informed, learned guesses, but that really is my job, to accurately convey the intent of the author and please the reader.

Real world here.

"englishes" that's bad.

I was working off ipad keyboard. Brevity is a must lest it become annoying.

Seriously, I'd rather work with a translator that's not as good, and I get along with them well, than with someone who's stubborn and opinionated, and treats me like a flunky. My last RL job had a jackass, which is why I'm wary.

 

I dont know, seems to me you're being the opinionated one. Everything they're saying is true, if you want to reference a MTL then that's your deal, you dont tell us how to do it because obviously you're such a skilled editor



QUOTE="userunfriendly, post: 4345048, member: 97302"]Wow...so lucky...to be only the proofreader.

NOT editor. OK, in an ideal world, you're working with the best translators, who speak, read and write fluently in both languages. In an ideal world, you're using collaborative software, and you have no hard deadlines, you and the translator can edit as many times as you want. In an ideal world, you're not working on translated Korean, which is notoriously difficult. In an ideal world, translators NEVER make mistakes.

I don't live in an ideal world, I'm working on two Korean, with an OK, but not great translator (we have great teamwork, which makes up for a LOT) and I'm proofreading a Japanese novel. Even on the Japanese novel, which has an excellent translator, I've referred to the MTL to clarify things. Clearly I'm not as lucky as you.

An editor, or proofreader has only one task. To deliver readable, understandable, as clear as possible translation to the reader. He or she is likely to be the final authority, depending on the linguistic ability of the translator in BOTH languages.

We're talking real world here, not the ideal world. Translation, mtl and being a fan are what I need and use. Any editor worth his or her salt will use ALL available tools to clarify translation, above all else, clarify and present the author's intent in the prose.

That's why these three tools are sometimes insufficient, and the emails between the editor and translator start flying. Even then, we've had to just bite the bullet, and make guesses about the text. Informed, learned guesses, but that really is my job, to accurately convey the intent of the author and please the reader.

Real world here.



"englishes" that's bad.

I was working off ipad keyboard. Brevity is a must lest it become annoying.

Seriously, I'd rather work with a translator that's not as good, and I get along with them well, than with someone who's stubborn and opinionated, and treats me like a flunky. My last RL job had a jackass, which is why I'm wary.

[/QUOTE]
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As a translator, having to re-translate someone else's garbage MTL would motivate me to never pick that title up.

◆​

This is true of Japanese, too. In fact, Japanese is one of the most extreme languages in the world when it comes to leaving out everything implied by context. Japanese is also full of massive modifying clauses. MTL is terrible at figuring out where modifying clauses end vs where sentences end. Also, the clauses also drop anything understood through context (which could involve multiple subjects), so when MTL tries to guess at what's missing, it fails spectacularly. That's because its algorithms work based on what its seen before, not an actual, human understanding of the context. So unless you know that context and where to connect everything, you're completely fucked.

◆​

Yes, this. A translator, the same as any writer, can get caught up in saying something a certain way without realizing there's a better way to say the same thing. Or they can be a dull writer. Editors are great for offering a more objective point of view or adding flavor to dull writing. However, the editor should be able to understand the original author's intent through the translator's words. If they can't, the translator failed.

 

​

That's about yourself, I think you got me wrong.
What I mean is that if the novel does turn out to be popular after some people reads that MTL version, then a translator can really go pick up that project after getting some interest on the novel and its popularity.
It has happened many times before, though I can't point you exactly which were the novels because they were no my type so I ignored them.

 

Of course it's about myself. I'm offering my perspective. Some translators might have picked up this or that title because the MTL version generated interest, but plenty of translators avoid titles because of the hassle of redoing (or continuing off of) someone's hack job. You just don't know about all the times a title was passed over because there's nothing to show for it.

 

Hey. English has fluid parts of speech. Did you know that "impact" used to be solely a noun? (jkjk lolol)
Sure, the world ain't ideal. But there is always the possibility of getting your TLer to explan that line to you again. It would be a learning experience for both of you. (the TLer will also learn which lines they need to word better, amd maybe improve their english) you have a person you get along with, so you hopefully should be able to communicate well, right? Suggest a change, and ask the TLer if it goes too far.
Communication among the team is important. You still don't need to suffer ugly raw MTL output. I find people to be much more agreeable team members to work with than machines!

And as for @clmbheat, i believe there are people in this community who are perfectly fine with reading MTL. It is why lnmtl exists. To some, "close enough" is good enough to learn the plot (who cares about the finer points of language anyways). And even better if the MTL reads well (the englishing is good), even less people will complain. It's not like they are comparing to the raws line by line. There are also some who wouldn't touch MTL with a nine-and-a-half foot pole. Some people will say "MTL is better than nothing". I lean towards the side of "only human TL pls." because of the fact that i already have enough to read that is decently TLed that I don't need to bother with something below a certain threshold of quality. Just know what you're getting into and what to expect. I'm not going to stop you from doing what you want. Humans are free to choose their actions. Others are free to judge. Existentialism or something.
There are different ways to MTL too. you can start with a pure Google Translate, or find other tools that define each word, but leave the parsing of the grammar to you, a human. I trust the latter a lot more. since it has more interaction with the text. But it obviously takes some time to start. I just self-studied japanese kana and grammar for a year or so before I ever started TLing anything in that way. Noob me wasn't the best at Japanese, but well, ya gotta start somewhere.

 

Except my expectations are realistic. One does not edit "as many times as you want." There is such a thing as diminishing returns. And of course translators make mistakes. That is literally the point of the translator doing multiple passes. Translators are supposed to not only edit their work, but also compare it with the raw upon each pass...

Again, the language is not relevant. It depends entirely on the translator's skill.

This is by no means correct. What you've mentioned is a classic example of a bad pipeline. First of all, editors and proofreaders are different. Although editors are also often proofreaders, proofreader is a less intensive task. Editors are expected to suggest phrasing changes, but it is up to the translator to go over them and ensure that one is not turning a translation into a fanfiction. A novel translator is not fully fledged unless they are capable of literary analysis and creative writing in both languages they work with. Just sayin'.

The best tool to use to clarify the author's intent should be the translator... The only time this is not the case is when the translator is incompetent. You clearly have no idea just how wrong MTL is. To reiterate my point from my previous post, MTL should not help the editor at all. If anything, it should only prove detrimental. Editors benefit from staying as far away from the original phrasing as possible unless the translator denotes it as important.

Is this 1995? Use live chat... Google docs is an excellent tool for online collaboration if one makes use of the suggestion and comment features. Or at the very least, use word online and hit the track changes button... Again, multiple passes should be done by each party, and there is no reason for all your questions not to be answered if they are presented next to the text that they refer to.

I see this as "btw the translators are incompetent."

This is not called conveying the author's intent. This is called writing fanfiction.

It is precisely because I work in the real world that I am able to even come up with the points I mentioned.