Discussion is magic really hindering Humanity Advancement?

actually this came to me when i read this discussion http://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/worlds.9556/ and read chapter Kingdom Realist (when souma talked tecnolgy advance more than the age)
kinda wondering why those genre transported to another world always have the other world have equal culture and time line with earth middle age. other thing is they always have magic opposed to science we have here.
is there no person like Galileo, Copernicus, Issac Newton, Nobunaga Oda, Avicenna (Ibnu sina), and other people who have broad vision as revolutionist ?
well maybe it was like that for "plot" sake so those transported/reincarnated people looked genius or so
if we talked is science and magic compatible ? my answer is yes as example in Magi Grandson because he know about science he can advance his magic multiple fold or Mahouka this one literally combined science and magic and named it Modern Magic

 

If you can generate fire with a word, release water when you want, the motivation tends to drop, and those with the motivation to change are called crackheads and lynched

 

Science is developed through necessity and desire. We use our very best method to move forward, to give ourselves security and luxury. Magic starts out very rudimentary, be it as simple as conjuring fire, or water. Simple necessities that early on were used for basic survival. Magic then develops further, turning into attacks and defenses. Things for living better and safer lives. Since the platform starts off differently magic is instead developed rather than science. The only difference would be when science becomes magic, such as Mahouka.

 

Look at electric cars vs internal combustion cars.

They were both viable at one point, but internal combustion was able to be improved too far ahead of the electric, that it only took til this century to have significant production+research restarted. It's a matter of economics and convenience, once technology (yes, application of magic is technology) hit a fork and one side had critical mass, the other path tend to be closed off or at least abandoned for the most part.

 

in a way magic hinder technology mainly cause of how convenient it is halting the process of looking for other ways to do certain things . That is a straight up point in hindsight if our world had magic we would never had invented a lot of the stuff we had today like fuel from coal, electricity, damns(dams), etc. because magic is just that convenient science would be undermined and people would generally turn to magic rather than weird ass science....

 

I've thought a lot about this same thing. Magic would not hinder scientific advancement. Like Parth mentioned, only people in power or those who have built their lives on magic would try to hinder it by either suppressing ideas and their distribution or killing talents.

Imagine you were a person that had no affinity to magic, but you had a good head on your shoulders and the desire to not be stepped on by magic users for the rest of your life. Wouldn't you start looking in other places to try and build strength? I think it'd be rather logical step to say that science would soon follow that thought. Even more so, any warfare and conflict would breed ideas that stretched towards science. Oh, they have an anti-magic shield protecting their city? What if we bombarded it with some other than magic?

And the next thing you know, siegecraft is born.

 

Do not forget the threat of monsters, and more often Than not demons and a demon king, so naturally they will train then self, electing the obvious martial path instead of studying weapon and logistic development like we did.

 

Much like how SG-1 couldn't understand the Nox when they met for the first time, a society that depends on magic can't properly understand why they'd need science. After all, why invent water pumps when you can conjure them out of thin air anywhere, anytime? Why bother inventing gas stove when you can just cook using magic? Doraemon teach us a lot of things, in a very easy, understandable way.

Our technology advance because our technology was originally extremely inefficient. Therefore, we try out best to improve it. In a world of magic, everything is much easier, therefore there is no need to invent a much inferior scientific version of the same thing.

Besides, any technology advanced enough can be misunderstood as magic. Who's to say that the magic world isn't actually technologically advanced? Many researchers theorized that all lores of ancient magic was actually a higher technology we're just unable to comprehend yet. The idea that telepathy and telekinesis being a highly advanced parallel science is even being treated as pseudo-science now.

 

magic is just an add-on in life of humanity, same as science. both just a same (yet different in kind and the way of how it begin, process and end of it's role in the civilization) technology that in needed by humanity(either in fiction or IRL)
and also, people still could kicking in life even tho they doesn't have it(or need it)

 

That is in the case of scientific magic, but when you get to specific types of fantastical magic that deals with mass conversion, resurrection and others . . . .

 

logical indeed they might suppressed other who try to make something other than magic

when read your comment make me remember Kuro no Maou and Gun-Ota, in there a side chara and MC make Gun with magic as foundation but since their gun different from magic (only use magic for internal combustion or something like that) it become deadly weapon since other didn't know how to defend from it

lets put aside about ancient technology, people might be misunderstood science with magic stan true but its not all people can use magic right ? in those novel often Magician is Minority but high valued moreover many of them directed in military (offense and defense magic) well there something like "Life Magic" like in Desumachi or other WN. but isnt people in this world advanced technology and science to make life more easier (car,water pump, television. phone, & ETC)
"why no one from those people in that world think about it ?" actually my point in this

 

Generally magic is used to accomplish what tech can do anyways. Science is usually only developed after magic is gone in order to replicate it.

 

what is science?
sci·ence
ˈsīəns/
noun
noun: science

1. the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
   "the world of science and technology"
   synonyms: branch of knowledge, body of knowledge/information, area of study, discipline, field
   "the science of criminology"
   • a particular area of this.
     plural noun: sciences
     "veterinary science"
   • a systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject.
     "the science of criminology"
     synonyms: physics, chemistry, biology; More
     physical sciences, life sciences
     "he teaches science at the high school"
   • archaic
     knowledge of any kind.

based on that why magic will hindering? to be honest what I really don't like about transported story where from land of science to land of magic make the setting most when earth on middle age state plus with lot dangerous existence for human lurking here and there. If that happen here on earth with same condition apply (magic exist) sure enough the so called *science* will move toward how to make humanity survive. Next how much common people know to read in middle age? How good education on that time? Education will make really big impact to advance of human. If the education on magic land same with current earth(where education have debatable easier to reach) I highly doubt there none people who don't think like what MC think that make human live easier~

 

That depends on which novel you're reading. In some stories, only magicians have magic power. In some, everyone has magic power, only magicians have more control over it. In some, everyone has magic, but because of magic attributes, people can't use the same magics as their friends can. Even if they don't have magic, there are always magic items, such as luminescence crystals or magic heaters. Anyway, the argument is whether magic hinder science, my answer considers the most general arguments about magic, not fictional, novel-based scenario. I'm not touching at all on novel-based magic, the author can make any kind of magic and any kind of setting he wants.

 

i actually did some research on this indirectly a few hours ago but basically (pulling from some Bayesian doomsday research) It was discovered that on earth

• technological growth implies an increase in carrying capacity, an increase in the number of people who can survive on any given plot of land
• demographic growth (more people) implies more potential inventors and hence an acceleration of technological growth
• accelerating technological growth causes accelerating growth of carrying capacity, in a positive feedback loop
• faster population growth likewise feeds back by accelerating growth of the number of potential inventors, and then even faster technological growth
• hence, even faster growth of the Earth's carrying capacity for people, and so on

(this was true up until about the late 1960's where technology produced a radical change in growth patterns that upset the previous dynamics)


In a magical world there is an outside element that selectively encourages individual strength over mass development in the form of monsters/demon kings/ etc
Developing magic to produce heroes is a better survival strategy than developing technology for mass armament, because the mass arms are inefficient at defeating monsters.
So they never really grow the population to the tipping point where the development of new technology keeps pace with the depletion of personnel due to monsters. But the constant death winnows out the individually strong who's personal survival allows the population to replenish itself at a rate sufficient to maintain a supply of heros.

 

Technically you cant say that magic is hindering human advancement. Lets just consider magic is real and basing it on fiction it can be considered that its a phenomen, it can be observe, can be documented, studied and of course practical. Now lets define science and technology . . . science can be defined as a collection of data or knowledge that that explains the universe, and technology is the application of the said knowledge. Since magic is useful and versatile it will be studied and of course will continue to advance and develop. So in way magic is advancing humanity though not the same way we did.

 

Not to blow your mind but who says the laws of physics as we understand them in a science universe apply in a magic universe? I've noticed most people making the assumption that magic isn't advanced. I think because most light novel with magic have lazy authors who don't really care because it's easy to say "it's magic" and drop it. However I've read plenty of English high fantasy novels that have advanced magic systems with complex lore. Historical fountains built over fictional century's hypothesizing and experimentation to understand that universes reality. The type of deep layered writing you see in Game of Thrones except all based around magic. A High magic universe would indistinguishable from a high science fiction universe.