Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by FussyBadger, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,645
    Likes Received:
    3,910
    Reading List:
    Link
    It could be that van is just really bad at conserving mana due to it being self learnt, either way it should be possible to make death mana bullets at least.
     
  2. Reman Scimitar

    Reman Scimitar Princess Zadiris Faction

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2018
    Messages:
    716
    Likes Received:
    1,037
    Reading List:
    Link
    Avalon: YES!!!! BEHOLD ORIGIN'S GOD!!!!

    Van: Sorry but Pluto already has that honor of being a God through Death Attribute on Origin.

    Avalon: Pluto? God? Don't make me laugh little kid, she died pitifully. (*wonders why kid has hetero-chromatic eyes of red and purple*)

    *Pluto of Legion joins the conversation*
    *Pluto of Gods of Origin joins conversation*

    Avalon: What the?

    Van: Again, Pluto was already God of Origin through Death Attribute and on the topic, I wonder how capable you are against me with Divine Devourer and Divine Enemy.

    (I can just imagine everyone looking at Van breaking Avalon's soul and devouring it with eyes of fear and awe esp his potential wives (possible more hopeful reincarnator wives inbound) :blobowoevil_horns:)
     
    jubjub3000 likes this.
  3. codered999

    codered999 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    613
    Reading List:
    Link
    Death Attribute isn't super costly, Van only had to spend so much cause his Skill level was low and he didn't have the Mana Control Skill for the longest time which meant his mana was being wasted when casting spells, plus he couldn't speak properly so he couldn't chant the spells which meant spending even more mana to obtain the full effect of the spell rather than a weaker effect. By the time he has Mana Control and a higher Skill level and the Chantless Casting Skill he was already used to spending large amounts of mana on his spells which made holding back that much harder. Plus he had a huge mana pool so while Mana Control was low level he still couldn't help in wasting a bunch of the mana he was putting into his spells. He also kept using spells that could be considered as above his Skill level which meant they cost more than they would have normally. Basically, it isn't that Death Attribute Magic costs a lot of mana to use, it's that Van was crap at managing his mana efficiently and kept on casting spells above what he should have normally been able to. He does the same with No Attribute Magic too though, but that magic does actually require a large amount of mana if you want the spells to actually do anything even remotely helpful.
     
    Bla8bla, hillo315, Claus and 6 others like this.
  4. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    2,191
    Reading List:
    Link
    Form surounding Rokudo it seem he potentially Guider.
    True
     
    hillo315 and jubjub3000 like this.
  5. codered999

    codered999 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    613
    Reading List:
    Link
    No it isn't true. I just made a comment on the mana cost thing, please read it. Using any magic in as grand a scale as Van uses his would require god levels of mana, that's not something specific to the Death Attribute. Mari just has low skill level with the magic as she only just got access to it and they're trying to go for a scale that isn't reasonable for anyone below a certain amount of mana, it again is not unique to the Death Attribute.
     
  6. LokiTheAccursed

    LokiTheAccursed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    1,118
    Reading List:
    Link
    Not to mention that Van always uses a ton of mana when he uses magic due to how much he has.
     
    hillo315, ssj4maiko and jubjub3000 like this.
  7. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    2,191
    Reading List:
    Link
    「Oh yes, have you heard? The rumors that Chief Tarea has been summoned into the King’s bedroom every day recently.」(Ghoul woman)

    「I’ve heard about it, but doesn’t he just want her company? The King is only four years old, after all. I’ve heard that he gets lonely easily, too. And she’s not the chief anymore, she’s the foreman, right?」(Ghoul woman)

    「That’s right, but I’m more used to calling her Chief –」(Ghoul woman)

    As the two Ghoul women walked along during their conversation, Tarea, the subject of their discussion, ran across in front of them.

    「Huh? Foreman –」(Ghoul woman)

    Immediately afterwards, Vandalieu passed across them as well. For some reason, he was crawling across the ceiling silently using all four limbs.

    「…」(Ghoul woman)

    As the two of the were rendered speechless at the sight of the Ghoul King, Tarea came back. She had been captured by Vandalieu.

    「Nooooooooo! Please let me go for toniiiiiight!」(Tarea)

    「No, no, we have to test the catapults’ firing tomorrow, so let’s do ten more today.」(Vandalieu)

    Vandalieu walked away, holding the teary-eyed Tarea in the air with【Telekinesis.】Watching him leave, the two Ghoul women swallowed before speaking again.

    「It’s not because he’s lonely?」(Ghoul woman)

    Yay second missunderstanding
     
    hillo315, Claus and jubjub3000 like this.
  8. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    2,191
    Reading List:
    Link
    I already read it but i don't want to believe it. It sound like you bashing Van-Sama. LOL , Jk.
    I wonder about that isn't mana control just make it easir to control the mana. It not straight as "Reduce Mana Compsumtion".
     
    hillo315 and jubjub3000 like this.
  9. ImanotherGuyFroyou

    ImanotherGuyFroyou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    215
    Reading List:
    Link
    While it's true that DA isn't really that costly do you guys think you can show the true potential of DA if you don't have large mana pool? I don't think a 100k mana is enough to even make 1 death canon,erasing mountain or even make Vidal Empire this prosperous.
     
    Bla8bla, hillo315 and jubjub3000 like this.
  10. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    2,191
    Reading List:
    Link
    They’re already half-disordered… To think that a human army would be this fragile. Zakkart apparently once spoke of using the power of the people to help each other
    Zakkart actually quite idealist too
     
    hillo315, Claus and jubjub3000 like this.
  11. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    2,191
    Reading List:
    Link
    Well that invinted spell. From Van. Using Van standard is too much my man.
     
    Bla8bla, hillo315 and jubjub3000 like this.
  12. anteopta

    anteopta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    580
    Reading List:
    Link
    just as much as you can't show the true potential of any other attribute. example: with 100k fire you can't create a sun just as you cant make a death canon
     
    Bla8bla, hillo315, ssj4maiko and 2 others like this.
  13. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,037
    Likes Received:
    3,833
    Reading List:
    Link
    The author has confirmed that Van's usage of magic is inefficient. Part of the problem is that it's not possible to do things like "cast this spell with 100 mana" - you have to mentally estimate the amount of mana. So let's say that the minimum amount of mana that Van can currently perceive is 0.1% of his total - that's still a huge amount of mana by normal standards (31m with Van's current total). Putting it another way, for Van, simple spells with low mana cost are much less efficient than bigger spells with an intrinsically high mana cost.
     
    Bla8bla, ssj4maiko, hillo315 and 4 others like this.
  14. SnowDorian

    SnowDorian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    488
    Reading List:
    Link
    in the conversation with Asagi, Van comments that even though he did not have the death attribute he could still do absurd things with other magical attributes and even without them because of his incredible amount of mana, Van also comments at the beginning of the series that the attribute death is not very appropriate to attack. So I kept thinking about things that could and could not be done by a normal death attribute user ...
    Death bullet - it is possible but would drain so little vitality that it would probably be a waste of time. Van uses 10k to 100k in his death bullets and there are still people who survive, the laser of the death attribute is better not even have to think about it ...
    Reversal of Youth - IMPOSSIVEL! to reverse 10 years Van used his mana entire (100 million) and even developing the technique too should not get to the point that someone could do this with up to 100k of mana.
    Controlling undead, golem, insects, plants and ghosts - it would probably be there that the Magic of Death attributes plus would be used by other users by is where it presents the best cost benefit.
    Destroy Souls - perhaps some super talented death wizard can arouse the ability after forcing many soul-destroying using the soul of insects, but I imagine it would take at least a few decades to acquire this.
    Death Delay and Deadly Attack Detector - would be ideal for frontline warriors, I imagine a job with the Highlander name.
    Insect killer and food preservation - there would be many users of the death attribute working as alchemists creating equipments with these abilities
    Create the metals of death - unviable because of the aggressive amount of mana needed to infuse into the metals and then use the aging equivalent to hundreds of thousands of years ...

    I think I have not forgotten anything, I believe that the death attribute is not particularly powerful is an attribute more geared towards support equal to the attribute life, Van is that makes it powerful with its ocean of mana ...
     
    Bla8bla, hillo315, Claus and 2 others like this.
  15. ImanotherGuyFroyou

    ImanotherGuyFroyou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    215
    Reading List:
    Link
    See? Even the Author said that DA isn't really threatening without large amount mana unlike other attribute like Fire,Wind,Water ect. Hell even Rikudo said that DA isn't worth the price of zero in other attribute without having large amount of mana. Rikudo also said Mari is still incomplete even tho she have full DA becouse of her low amount of mana
     
    Bla8bla, hillo315 and jubjub3000 like this.
  16. ImanotherGuyFroyou

    ImanotherGuyFroyou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    215
    Reading List:
    Link
    But DA isn't like that tho? Unlike DA people can become very strong with 100k or even 30k mana in other attribute. DA offense ability is impossible to use if you only have 100k mana and thats even if you have amazing mana control.
     
    Bla8bla, hillo315 and jubjub3000 like this.
  17. codered999

    codered999 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    613
    Reading List:
    Link
    They're strong relative to the normal people around them. Your idea of what scale to work with in regards to these attributes of magic is very off. If you took 10 people with 1k mana each and only level 2 in the attribute of magic they use(I'm saying each person has one of the 9 known attributes of magic plus no attribute) and then asked what they can do with that magic. You would get pretty poor results no matter which person you talk to. Space, Time, Life, Light, and No Attribute would have no real way to do any kind of significant damage attack wise as the first person would at best be able to teleport small objects or teleport themselves a few feet at best, the second person can make you or themselves move faster or debuff someone to move slightly slower, but the act of seeing through time would be impossible as would traveling through time, the third person can heal minor wounds and cure minor weak poisons, but dealing with serious diseases or strong poisons would be beyond them and you certainly won't see them healing things like large gashes or bone fractures or missing limbs, the fourth person might be able to blind someone for a short time or create a light source for a dark environment for a few minutes, but other than using minor anti undead spells to fight rank 1 or 2 undead, they'd be of no real use in combat dealing with rank 3 or D class level opponents, and the fifth person has a single attack spell that is slow, does shit damage with their low amount of mana, and to make it do any damage would require they use all their mana to cast it which means they get to attack once with a slow moving, non-tracking, easily dodged, short lived projectile, plus the other spells they can do are just parlor tricks at best in a combat situation or slightly convenient outside of combat.

    Fire, Water, Earth, Wind, and Death all have more combat use and utility use, though Life also has utility use that is on par with these attributes. But the scale in which they can use their magic is very small at this low level and with this low amount of mana the effect their spells produce would also be very underwhelming past rank 2 or E class situations. From tiny fireballs that would best be used to start a bonfire, to amounts of water to drench someone mildly, there isn't a lot to really look at here. You need to look at these things from the same point of scale, Van's magic only seems costly because he's always been working on a scale well beyond what is normal and you should start accounting for what his magic would be able to do when subjected to a normal scale if you want to accurately compare it to the other attributes. And before you ask, Death Bullets even with only 100 mana behind them would still be devastating to low rank or low class enemies as it directly drains your vitality upon contact, homes in on you at a fast speed, and can travel a pretty decent distance.
     
  18. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,037
    Likes Received:
    3,833
    Reading List:
    Link
    Good summary considering the limits of MTL. A few thoughts and corrections...

    This seems to be an artificial world prepared for Mei - ie as similar to Origin as possible. I'm not sure what the lumps of meat are for, though they're in a magic circle. It reminds me a bit of Darcia's resurrection but perhaps those lumps aren't for Mei. For example, perhaps Van intends to recreate Mei's life on Origin, including people and the lumps of meat will be turned into people. I'm dubbing this place "Mei's World" for now.


    Later on the the chapter Van (or rather Bander) specifically references the time when he was on Origin as a research subject and had zero freedom of movement. It's at that time that he learned telepathy. So this is almost certainly Metamorph using telepathy in a similar situation. I'd guess that her self has returned and she's going to be a bit angry. I wonder if she can still use "Metamorph".

    So anyway, while Avalon has made some progress on re-creating the death attribute, he doesn't understand it fully and to do so would require understanding the inner workings of the soul, which he is a long long way from being able to do.


    He's actually teaching telepathy (念話), not spirit form (霊体).


    For reference, Ulricka (Echo) first appeared here: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1745ct/359/


    For anyone wondering, this is the same "Balor" as one of Van's jobs. Johnny Yamaoka hasn't been mentioned before though (that I can find).


    It's more like Johnny is bad with the mass-media and others, unlike Asagi, and basically kept to himself.


    The lines are the end are rather cool, I thought. Balor is in shock and says "I'm a man who won against a tank in hand-to-hand combat" and Bander replies "My main body has beaten 100m long dragons and true colossi in hand-to-hand combat".

    I see that the author commented that sending Balor to attack Bander was like sending a rat to attack a nest of dragons, heh.

    If I'm reading things correctly then Bander isn't going to break Balor's soul. Instead he warns him to make the right choices in the place he's going to next and to rely upon Oracle, Inspector and Laplace.
     
    Bla8bla, hillo315, Claus and 6 others like this.
  19. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    2,191
    Reading List:
    Link
    i wonder if Van will have all braver power from Rikudou Faction.
     
    hillo315 and jubjub3000 like this.
  20. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    2,191
    Reading List:
    Link
    thanks to the fort construction project led by the Amid Empire, Viscount Balchesse’s region narrowly managed to recover from its loss.

    … In the future, the clearly pointless fort in this territory would only cause suffering, but it would likely be the viscount’s son’s generation who would have to worry about that.
     
    hillo315 and jubjub3000 like this.