List Of Chinese Novels With Overt Racism/Nationalism

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Eishun, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. Pandora Exa

    Pandora Exa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    13
    Reading List:
    Link
  2. Causal Reader

    Causal Reader Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    83
    Reading List:
    Link
    Geez! Don't know what is wrong with your location but if it hit our location it would be a major scandal!
     
  3. Sabruness

    Sabruness Cultured Yuri Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2016
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    4,224
    Reading List:
    Link
    That's not just because the nationalism. everything from the timeskip onwards was just super shit in general. Everything before that was pretty good though
     
  4. tides

    tides Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,112
    Likes Received:
    732
    Reading List:
    Link
    i dont understand why china is always being targeted

    in japanese novels/anime/manga.
    japan is always the best. best food, best manga, best anime, best culture, best people

    in korea, koreans are always very nice, very romantic. super rich. pretty and handsome people everywhere. very generous and always the best at what they do.

    in US, well. just look at the comics. US is leader of the world. tony stark and captain america saves the world daily...avengers HQ is in US, america tech is best. all the mysterical portals to hidden and magical worlds are in US. US is where everything happens, all the zombie outbreaks, and so on...
    ect...
     
    zanari likes this.
  5. baka8roukanako

    baka8roukanako Justice for Qi Rong

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2018
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    516
    Reading List:
    Link
    What you mentioned can be labelled as 'positive nationalism' i.e. 'our ways are the best' - it's not attacking any nation/ethnicity/group in particular. It's cute/amusing, can get annoying after a while, but it's not offensive and it's not meant to antagonise anybody. On the other hand, all the examples cited by @Eishun would be dungstorms in the making if Japan had the same level of nationalistic education as the People's Republic. But they don't, so nobody gives a flying duck.
     
  6. EnuoFH

    EnuoFH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    105
    Reading List:
    Link
    Tbh, i find really annoying this grudge that countries have when its like this, i'm not saying that they cant be mad for what happened and annoyed that a country will be an asshole and not apolize because they are too conservative but the people that live there today are mostly not even related to what happened they changed, culture changed drastically from that time so whats the point of pointing hatred towards another in such a violent way? Thats not going to do anything good for humanity and it will only make these nations be intolerant with each other because these things
     
    baka8roukanako likes this.
  7. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,847
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Reading List:
    Link
    It's a bit odd to see people complaining about racism in Chinese novels when the genre that has the most racism - the War novels - is basically not translated. Realistically, the amount of racism is caused by two major factors. The first is the rise of Chinese chauvinism. Chinese people have a lot of respect for history, and they know that, for much of recorded history China was the most powerful country in the world. That hasn't been true since the 1800s but these chauvinists see China as coming back to reclaim that rightful place. And so they're starting to be loud about sharing that opinion, and it's seeping into webnovels.

    The other factor is vitriol against Japan. China and the Chinese people has a very legitimate gripe with how horrid Japan acted during the Second Sino-Japanese War, and they're not going to give up on that unless Japan shows proper contrition. Even worse for Japan, they're the beating horse for all the things that European countries did to China as well. If this were before the 1920s, Great Britain would have been China's main villain.

    Japan has better press. Back in the '80s Japan was thought of as a major threat to the US and the country was treated worse back then. Nowadays, Japan is needed as a counterweight to China and is much less of a threat economically so it gets treated better.

    As it happens, when you invade a country and end up killing tens of millions of people, that country may end up bearing a grudge. The Japanese largely feel that it's ancient history and should be left in the past. The problem is that they don't get to make that decision. It's the people who bear the grudge who get to decide when to let go of it. It's not unique to China either - even today, you're not going to be able to perform a Wagner concert in Israel.
     
  8. EnuoFH

    EnuoFH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    105
    Reading List:
    Link
    Still its kinda of pointless, its like your father did something and for some reason the person think killing their children will do it, its like your family its from a bad cult and you are not but since they are you should also be punished, you shouldn't direct the grudge to innocent ones, the country did bad things but the country does not make the individual e the individual makes the country and not every individual is equal and not all of them are also guilty for what happened, if you want to hold a grudge like this you bring nothing to yourself but twisted emotions that will bring discord sooner or later with other people, it benefit noone in the end all i can say if they want to keep it they are just being silly, they can demand the apologie as much as they want they deserve it for what japan as nation did to them, but directing their grudge toward every japanese and individual that may not even be related to it? That just unjustified violence
     
  9. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,847
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Reading List:
    Link
    Two points: the first is that the Japanese people don't have the right to be free of the grudge; it's up to the Chinese people. And that Japan itself isn't entirely innocent, and there is never going to be an easy way to make the deaths of tens of millions of people go away.

    There are two reasons for this. The first is that the Japanese government is directly connected to the same government that invaded China. Shinzo Abe is the current prime minister of Japan, and his grandfather was literally one of Japan's worst war criminals. To top it off, said war criminal was one of the first prime ministers of post-war Japan. The scars of the war have never fully healed. Which brings us to the second reason in that Japan hasn't done much to redeem themselves; with no sincere expression of contrition, and constant foot dragging on symbolic gestures that would actually improve their image.

    Now is all of this entirely fair? No. But who ever said that the world was a fair place? China has no sympathy for Japan's position and they have been given no reason to be sympathetic, so there's no reason for them to let Japan off.
     
    Bright_Lucky_Star likes this.
  10. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    1,901
    Reading List:
    Link
    As time marches on, less and less Chinese are directly affected. And less and less Japanese were directly responsible. Sure it's tragic, and this way it stays remembered, but a line has to be drawn at some point or we'll get politicians floating the idea of unrelated taxpayers paying reparations to descendants of victims 120 years down the line.

    ...which is happening right now in the US.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
    baka8roukanako likes this.
  11. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,847
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Reading List:
    Link
    Why should people forgive and forget? The Chinese national identity is very strong (if a bit confused) and there are a lot of people who identify a harm done to the nation as a harm done to themselves. It'd be one thing if Japan had done anything to make up for their actions, but even today their current government is committed to wartime apologism. Basically, one of the main reasons this is such a lingering issue is because Japan itself has done nothing to encourage it to go away. Right now, China and Japan's relationship is warming so the issues are being put on the backburner, but you can be sure that they will flare up again when those relations sour.
     
  12. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    1,901
    Reading List:
    Link
    When it gets to the point where people are taking credit for other's people work (where those that didn't experience the suffering are still claiming injuries to seek an advantage), wouldn't we have gone past the point of shamelessness?

    (We're not at this point yet, but it's never going to stop if this keeps going...)
     
    AKIKAN and baka8roukanako like this.
  13. EnuoFH

    EnuoFH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    105
    Reading List:
    Link
    And you said it all the govern its pretty much like this so why are the hatred exist to every single japanese? As if all of them are some sort of monsters that were the ones that did that, they also have no right to hold a grudge to people that have nothing to do with what happened just because they were born in that country they have the full right to ask for an apology as a nation for diplomatic reasons but there is people that is always showing how much all japanese are evil or stuff like that,you don't get me this grudge has no purpouse anymore but to reopen wounds that were made back then, if they really want to something happen to japan why are they resorting to violence? Why can't they make japan have to forcefully make their people learn of their bad deeds in history and learn that they were shamefull not only as japaneses but as humans? But they are resorting in holding grudge in a way that they want they exterminate these people in the paper them are being no better than japanese back then if they think like this of other people life just because they live there or were born there even if they are innocent

    People have the right to hold a grudge against the nation itself that tries to protect from apolozing from its shamefull acts and they also they have the rights to be mad at the ones that defend not apolozing, but they have no right to hold grudge about an entire population of individuals for the deeds of the past in a country that changed goddamn drastically in many ways since them, thats a radical an inhuman way of thinking and how to deal with a grudge that can be solved by other means, if this grudge should be resolved in a way that there would be no more grudges beetwen people shouldn't be resorted to violence, and before you tell me that they never did i'm saying all this for how much in chinese stories they go full violent against japanese people and also expressing how they think that them are scums

    Holding grudges like this its a stupid think for humanity, people change values,principles,cultures are changed so why people have to be the ones to be hated for when things were completely different? As long they do not support what happened them have no part on it them are just humans that are from the place that once did that nothing more
     
  14. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,847
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Reading List:
    Link
    Who ever said that this was supposed to be fair? This thread is about racism and chauvinism, and these are inherently irrational ideologies.

    Grudges aren't supposed to have a purpose: they're a sign that the wounds have never healed and that it's up to the responsible parties to make amends. Japan hasn't done that yet so they're reaping the consequences of that. Individual Japanese aren't directly responsible for anything, but collectively they've still been reelecting people who are big fans of wartime apologism so it's not as if they're being held to some sort of amazing standards of behavior.
     
    Bright_Lucky_Star likes this.
  15. EnuoFH

    EnuoFH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    105
    Reading List:
    Link
    Well most of countries in the world keep electing people that are suited for this kind of thing for being in power japan is only one more, people really have no clue on who they should vote for , i was just pointing out how pointless the existence of such thing right now

    Do these racist things that are written in those kind of stories are well seem on the chinese community? Or they just simply ignore it or whatever i never really saw how their community behave with this kind of stuff
     
  16. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,847
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Reading List:
    Link
    I'd like to say that you're correct, but Japan is a bit unique here in that they're quite willing to have war criminals and grandchildren of war criminals as their national leaders. What modern Japanese people do is a direct reflection of how little they care about making amends.

    It really depends on what kind of racism/chauvinism. What a lot of people think of racism (KKK and the like) probably isn't all that popular among Chinese netizens because they don't really care about that kind of thing so they don't think about it much. What draws much stronger responses would be hot topic international events, so if China has a confrontation with a particular country then it's going to get a lot more vitriol. But that's going to be true of just about every country so I don't think there's anything unusual going on.

    What does make a difference is that Chinese people in general tend to place more of their self worth into the prestige of their country than you will see in most other peoples. This translates to a willingness to sacrifice more of their own well being for things that are perceived to be for the good of the country and a greater willingness to attack countries and peoples that are perceived to have caused harm to the country. And so Japan is going to end up as a permanent whipping boy for Chinese chauvinists and these chauvinist are going to continue receiving a lot of support from fellow Chinese netizens.
     
    Bright_Lucky_Star likes this.
  17. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    1,901
    Reading List:
    Link
    ...the BS, it burns...
    Just seeing "What a lot of people think of racism (KKK and the like) probably isn't all that popular among Chinese netizens..." is giving me goosebumps. And that's at the very start of your defense. If you consider that THIS very thread was created because of how the Chinese writers look down on other nations, it practically means that your "probably isn't" really means "probably is". Justify it how you will, it's pretty obvious that many of the Chinese do like to look down on other nations...or these stories would not be so popular.

    I mean, you just need to use the stupid test. If an opposing nation sends their top-ranked hero, watch closely at how stupid he becomes to understand just how MUCH respect the author is showing (Want me to spell it out? Not one iota of respect. Many of those heroes go full retard and the Chinese protagonist gets blatant plot armor. ) This kind of treatment is exactly how MANY people understand racism, yo.
     
    AKIKAN and baka8roukanako like this.
  18. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,847
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Reading List:
    Link
    I'm far from saying that China is relatively free from racism. My actual point is that there are lots of different kinds of racism, and that Chinese netizens generally aren't of the "we hate you and we wish you don't exist" variety and more of the "we're so superior to you that you are irrelevant" variety. There are examples of the former in Chinese books, but I'm really not seeing all that much support for it.

    The reality is that Chinese people in general don't know much about foreign countries other than what they see on TV and in films. And so, their opinions on those countries is strongly couched in ignorance. Ignorance can certainly beget racism, but it's generally not particularly meanspirited.
     
  19. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    1,901
    Reading List:
    Link
    You do realize that, these days, didn't know any better is not a reasonable defense anymore, right? And considering that the author doesn't even try to make any effort on an enemy that he disrespects, opting to portray every one of them as utter retards; I'd say that it's plenty rude. Many stories, destroyed. All because the author was a frog in a well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
    AKIKAN and baka8roukanako like this.
  20. Halo-halo

    Halo-halo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading List:
    Link
    That's a very bias statement every country has a individual with a very strong national identity. You keep insisting that only Chinese could possess this trait and disregard other country. China did try to invade Japan many times but no compensation given to the Japanese afterwards the war, then Japan invaded China every Chinese cried foul even after they were given compensation.
    I conclude you are not defending their unresolve grudges you're defending their pettiness