Discussion More War or Trade for Elven development?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by AIm21, May 16, 2018.

  1. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    So I was creating a my ideal fantasy and I want to give a past to the Elves that would allow them to go beyond simple hunter and gather, but also is not an advance super tech race that somehow is on the brink of extinction every time.

    Also my type of elves don't have a lower population to the humans as they are immune to disease and sickness unlike most humanoid race in this world. Their low fertility is also fix by their superior ability in some type of nature magic. So the population of Elves in my fantasy world is even greater then the humans. As the concept of overpopulation doesn't exist in my fantasy world because how would one know their species is overpopulated when one have to keep thinking of their survival and starvation? So because of their excess population they wage constant war with other races and each other to gain more territory for survival.

    This made my elves exceptionally good at war to gain resouces to keep their tribe or clan from starvation. But they also trade with other races when they aren't fighting and they are also the only race acknowledged by the Dragons and Giants of my world as almost equals. So they could trade with the Dragons that have immense hoards of treasure and knowledge of magic. While the Giants allow them to get exceptionally powerful magic items forged and so can bypass trading with their hated archenemies the Dwarves or the tribes of Dark Elves. But the blacksmithing ability is not bad as they need to know how to craft weapons for war, better then the humans, but lacking compare to the Dwarves and Dark Elves.

    So with this as the setting to the elves of my ideal fantasy world.

    Which path of these two development would an Elven Civilization take to develop and be better then their rivals? War or Trade?

    I know they could do both, but what I want to know is that if the Elves in my have a country that is consider a superpower and is the center to the elven race. Which path would they most likely choose more to develop their civilization and countries? War for expansion to prevent their people from starvation and to gain more territory for themselves to grow stronger relative to other races or trade to form networks that would allow the elves to enrich and specialize themselves without the need for expansion, but at the risk of putting themselves in a trade system once disrupted can spell their doom?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  2. RRL Vocaloid

    RRL Vocaloid RoyalRoadl.com Slepragt

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    Turn them into discworld elves. Have them kill, conquer, and consume their enemies like a scourge upon their planet. Nothing beats cannibal elves.
     
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  3. elengee

    elengee Daoist Ninefaps

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    Elf cyborg waifus.
     
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  4. Westeller

    Westeller HAI DOMO! VIRTUAL YOUTUBER KIZUNA EYE DESU! Staff Member

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    Err. While the grunts on the ground might not understand that their excess population is ultimately causing food shortages, anyone in a position of authority should be more than clear on this point. So I'm pretty sure there's no rational way to say they don't understand overpopulation.. and seeing as their fertility is apparently being supported through active use of magic, it seems like there's a pretty simple solution to the problem, too.... Oh well. It isn't like any other author's world is perfect, either.

    Anyway, war and trade can both be pursued, and are both important for any civilization, in my opinion. To the point that neither option should be neglected. ... They should obviously trade among the races amenable to them and wage war on their enemies, while striving to be as self-sufficient as possible. The only way to reasonably narrow their focus into war or trade is through some kind of limitation. Geographical, for example. If they're surrounded by enemies and no willing trade partners, the choice is made for them. Similarly, if they're surrounded by friendly races and aren't inclined towards villainy, the choice is again made for them. If they're in a more favorable position with easy access to both enemies and allies, there's no reason whatsoever not to take advantage of both.

    Like @RRL Vocaloid says, though, war is always more fun.
     
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  5. Aurega

    Aurega Well-Known Member

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    Why not both? Take a page out of the European colonial powers: they will subjugate weaker enemies by force, but will trade with stronger powers. So always choosing which will bring the most benefits and least risks. So if a human kingdom is weak and provide little goods for them to use, they can conquer it and enslave the populace, but the neighboring kingdom is much bigger and more powerful, and also produce goods that the elves find useful so they'll choose to set up a trade pact with them since going to war will be very costly and could ruin their production of that good.
     
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  6. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    The reason they develop the Magic to fix their fertility problem is because they developed it to allow them to better wage war on their enemies and negate their disadvantages on their shortage of population going down once enough of them die. As before their natural population is growing exponetionally each hundred years even with less fertility then humans and so they would always reach overpopulation no matter what if they don't have more land.
     
  7. Meloman

    Meloman Well-Known Member

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    Better yet: trade and then stab in the back, steal the stuff back and trade again
    Muahaha :blobdevil::blobhero::blob_sunglasses:
     
  8. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... I think you just gave the perfect idea for how I am going to create the War Elves.
     
  9. Dr.Flash

    Dr.Flash Active Member

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    War is the way to go, trade can't curb their overpopulation and elven elders will definitely opt for war to limit the population. Just hope no-one like thanos was born their or else half of them will be killed for the betterment of their race
     
  10. asriu

    asriu ((≧▽≦))

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    where da elves live?
    what their history? constant war really vague imo
    current tech?
    war or trade?
    you can do both no excuse can't~ it just lean toward one aspect
    if you go more toward war then it mean economy resolve around weaponry merchant, mercenary, battle oriented magic and it mean import of daily live thing cuz other kicked for war~
    as for trade route now that can be various thing but with current setting it can mean material and why I feel there another missing info like your previous ask opinion about weapon?
    1st are you make da elves kingdom or whatever is on shifting era?
    2nd make clear elves kingdom geography cuz as @Westeller stated it can impact foreign affair~ trade, diplomacy or war example if elves make war for let say within 100 years with all it surrounding then wanna trade? on your dream!
    3rd related to 2nd~ elves relation with all race~ even if you are super power I'm really surprise a country can keep being asshole waging war here and there without declining their power and resource despite over population, technology or ability~ unless you make they like demon race thing~
    hah!
    if they keep make same mistake, sooner or later they will doom no matter which way they take unless it only on past and it shifting era
     
  11. foxyprince

    foxyprince Member

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    if they're so good with nature magic isn't it possible to move that way and develop things that would help them in agriculture solving their starvation problem. They could also use their products for trade since the other species are not so accomplish with them then the reason they would be war like is because of protection of their interest like trade routes. if you want them to learn weapon manufacturing can't they solve that with trade as well gradually for example the giants need huge amount of food and how do they get their food from hunting or what you can eliminate that through your surplus of food and make them work for you exclusively... plus population wouldn't really be a problem since you need people for a lot of things since you said the place is not tech advance then you would need man power of developing homes, roads, castles, military, work of your industry and stuff.
     
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  12. m7vpc

    m7vpc Well-Known Member

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    If the population is excessive to the point where they engage in war for more resources, then by definition the population is overpopulated. The better word should be "abundant".

    Anyways, to answer your question, this race of powerful and OP elves would require the development of a strict militaristic order to unify this race. These elves are so powerful to be considered equals as dragons and giants (both races which are sometimes mythical gods in our world) so ruler/government must be efficient and swift to deal with the chaos or else they'd fracture within a day. I'd use the model of the Nazi Party (minus Hitler + not because I think it is good) to give an example of what the elves should order themselves like. As a result of maintaining a cohesive group and warring other races, the elves must be able to "dehumanize" other races for resources.

    Obviously, trade and war are both important, but maintaining a strict group is more important considering these elves are equals to our folktale gods.
     
  13. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

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    Never pegged the elves as having an overpopulation problem. It's a simple concept and yet it's brilliant.

    Wish I had thought of it before, but my focus lay elsewhere.

    Personally, I'd skip out on trade and war and go with the third option...attempt to reach space. Then, when you want war, the elves would have the technology for intercontinental ballistic missiles. Well, without the guidance system.

    If successful, the elves could establish colonies in other worlds.

    But in the meantime, while failures abound, we'll be seeing a lot of magic development into throwing things farther and farther. Then afterwards, magic to survive in hostile conditions.
     
  14. asriu

    asriu ((≧▽≦))

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    magic.science or both?
    it really hard keep confidential info not leak beside it also can make technology race~ unless one race tech is too overpower
    example
    hmm god and mortal~
     
  15. Green Apple

    Green Apple Actually I'm secretly an orange.

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    I think you underestimate the killing potential of the war. If it's a war of hate to the death, it should kill a number of people. War means more warriors - less workers - worse economy & less food - less population (lack of food and high death rate (also because of lack of males if they are the main fighting force)).

    Edit: Or they aren't at war yet? I thought that they have overpopulation problems even when they are at war for some reason... Probably lack of sleep ._.
     
  16. Dont_Don

    Dont_Don Well-Known Member

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    The high population rate sorta irks me, a nice replacement is that they breed and groom a warrior class/species that does the grunt work for them. Like how hobgoblin breed goblins in dungeons and dragons. They should keep the low fertility rates but make up for it with their magical genes splicing abilities. The novice book series has the orcs performing human sacrifices to power witch craft inorder to corrupt gremlin eggs to create a foot soldier race of eunuch like goblins to be their cannon fodder. The eunuch goblins ride cassowarys into battle, talk about terrifying.

    Caste system
    Slave traders
    Expansionist
    Unfortunately sounds like dark elves
     
  17. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

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    Has to be magic. The OP stated in his post that the elves aren't strong technologically, and their magic is amazing.
     
  18. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    The Elves in my world has a specific crop that they can't live without in their diet in order to maintain their race unique ability to live far longer then the other race in this and maintain their immune to almost all natural disease or sickness.

    For them to continue farming this crop of theirs they need to create a magically enrich land and to make this land they need space. But there is only so much unoccupied land and they could allow others to make this forest. However, this would put their food supply in the hands of other. So that is why Elves will always wage war if they had grown beyond the point their land is able to handle their abundant population after several generation and without any trusted partners to help them grow their food.

    Also this crop is poisonous to any race that aren't naturally born with utmost certainty to use magic from birth and without this crop as their diet. The Elves that have been evolve to sustain themselves on this diet for such a long time will exhibit signs of starvation and once starvation kicks in they become more effected by natural disease and sickness before weakening enough to be killed by the common cold or an infection.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  19. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    Most death in War is due to infections, sickness, and disease. But the elves are naturally immune to those when they are still heathly and so most soldiers will go back alive to help farm their land or even gain more land if they won the war. However, if not they will lose most of their excessive population fighting a long war solving their earlier problem that cause the war.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  20. tides

    tides Well-Known Member

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    it's unrealistic for the typical elves that we all know of to engage in trade. war however is more plausible as its been done before. the elves war to save the earth, because humans are destroying nature.