So this is a semi-realistic poll with no fantasy element. It's taken from a scenario I see very frequently in real life, and I'm curious about what people think about it. Once upon a time there was a man and a woman who were significant others. They had been dating for six years, and they were seriously contemplating marriage. Both of them were young adults, finished with their undergraduate studies, and very serious/ambitious about their careers. The male party recently graduated school and has a degree in engineering. His aspirations are to work in a high-profile engineering firm in the country. The female party was very talented in school and always dreamed of being a professor at a university. She was the valedictorian of her class in economics and she is eyeing further advanced post-graduate programs overseas at very famous universities. Engineering is generally a more stable job and allows its graduates to reach the job market faster. However, the career development ceiling is reached (relatively) early. Economics has no intrinsic stable job — the probability of obtaining an academic position is low — but there is also the possibility that it could swing into finance/investment banking (very lucrative jobs) — as well as dozens of other options. It is difficult to predict exactly where the female party might be in 10 years, and only the very best in the field rise to the top. The male party recently received a job offer from the largest engineering firm in the country. It would entail moving to the capital city to work and have a nice salary immediately. If accepted, it would probably result in a stable job for life. The female party applied and was accepted to Oxford University, Harvard University, and five other international universities with the top economics programs in the world — but none of these universities are in the male party's country. Both the male and female parties are very serious about their relationships with each other, but they are conflicted about what to do. If they each pursued their respective dreams, it would mean separating in an international long-distance relationship for at least 5-6 years. The male and female parties have each been consulting their friends and family recently. They have been advised by their parents that when it comes to marriage, realistically at some point someone needs to back down and play a more "supportive" role. That — in order to be a "unit" — someone needs to make a sacrifice, because putting career first will inevitably pull people in different directions. Of course, this doesn't mean that one person absolutely needs to be a housewife or househusband — it could be that the female party takes a local office job or the male party moves overseas to work as an automobile mechanic. A sacrifice needs to be made if the two of them want to stay together. At least, that is what their parents have told them. Now, they've come to you for advice, so what do you tell them? 1. What's your advice for this couple? 2. If you had to choose between your career dreams and your spouse's career dreams, whose would you pick? And why? What if both of you have equivalent earnings potential and are equivalently talented/skilled? 3. Would you consider a long distance relationship? Could accept living in a long distance relationship as a married couple? 4. Would you be comfortable with your spouse being the primary breadwinner? Would you be comfortable being a house-wife/house-husband? Do you have any preference about this? 5. In an ideal world, how ambitious is your ideal spouse about their career?
Ignoring the fact that this scenario basically screams utopian at me... Why can't the engineer that was scouted by the nations largest engineering firm (whatever that is...) just search for a job in the UK / USA (depending on the university she accepts) and work there while his dear genius GF studies? I mean... considering he just finished his degree and immediately landed in the largest firm, I imagine his qualifications must be more than just amazing. I see no reason why anyone has to sacrifice anything here, except maybe family... but considering how extremely career focused they are, that probably isn't a problem.
I think it's one of those things where you don't need to think and just . Study in univ only take at most 4 years if you are diligent enough. The girl might want to move back to their country since living alone in foreign country is tough, and the male might want to move to where the girl are going to study since the pay might be better. Personally I prefer to support my partner & work from home.
A lot of this kind of thing that I’ve seen was internship based. Junior/senior year person does internship at very large firm — and it lands them the job — which they have right after graduating. It can be difficult to get applying cold, otherwise. For this scenario, both of them have already finished undergraduate university are in the mid-twenties range. Girl applied to PhD program — for economics that’s 5-7 years average. She would probably be in her late twenties early thirties by the time she is done. VISA and job permit is the primary thing. In some cases relicensing is required. For something even like overseas medical school, if you go to the US you have to train your residency all over again. The work/immigration visas can be somewhat difficult to obtain depending on what country you are from — and you’re kicked out of the country if you can’t find a job within a certain number of months. In either case, it would almost be easier for the guy to apply to graduate school in the US/UK first for a student visa and then look a job after finishing a further degree.
If you want to be with someone, you want it now. No point in wasting time on long distance. "Top" learning programs are not anything special, and most of attendies turn out to be useless inexperienced kids without job experience, that breakdown due to never having experiences. Best advice would be to take job offer, and enroll somewhere close. Getting relevant job experience while studying will be much more appreciated by potential bosses, than just having "top" education. And you have a reliable loved person supporting you.
I was in a similar relationship. My ex was a engineer and got a really good job in his country. I graduated as engineer as well. I am not a genius and neither got a really good job. The reason why we broke up is that I didn't want to move to a country where they spoke Arabic and no English. I would miss my family and I want to be able to get a job and friends who speak English at least. He had job offers in my country, but in the end he choose for his family and country instead. I won't ever do long distance relationships again and won't encourage someone to do either. I loved him to death and don't hold any grudges. But these kind of relationships are taxing and toxic. You will have lots of heartbreaking having long distance relationships. I wish anyone having them good luck and hope you will unite soon cheers
1. What's your advice for this couple? Don't give up your dreams...try the long distance relationship or seperate for a time and see where that takes you first. There's always a time for romance and love, but opportunities like these ones are much rarer. 2. If you had to choose between your career dreams and your spouse's career dreams, whose would you pick? And why? What if both of you have equivalent earnings potential and are equivalently talented/skilled? My dream career is one of convenience that rescues/nurses back to health animals. This isn't simply a career, it's a lifestyle. So mine. I wouldn't stop them from pursuing theirs however.. 3. Would you consider a long distance relationship? Could accept living in a long distance relationship as a married couple? Probably not. I feel like we'd eventually lose touch, too absorbed in our immediate daily lives. 4. Would you be comfortable with your spouse being the primary breadwinner? Would you be comfortable being a house-wife/house-husband? Do you have any preference about this? I don't care honestly, as long as I can pursue my passions and hobbies. I'd like to earn some of my own income however. 5. In an ideal world, how ambitious is your ideal spouse about their career? Enough that they are passionate about it, but not enough that it would consume their whole life and ending in never seeing them.
Or do it like any sane person... Search for a job and once you got a good company ask them to help you with your visa... Why would you migrate to another country if you had no means to feed yourself?... Btw... I don't know why you post these scenarios but basically it is useless, because we weren't provided enough information to form a educated opinion and whatever we say can be wrong depending on how you spin those hidden parameter? I mean the girl literally just applied to most top 10 universties across the globe and was accepted by all of them, but the dude has such a shady background that it will be difficult for him to get a work VISA in the US/UK when he is considered a elitist in his country? What kind of country are we talking about exactly? Yemen, Afghanistan, Siria? And what kind of influence does the girls parents have for that not to be a problem? This scenario is coined so heavily in the girls favor that anything else than "the guy should give up everything and just sit at home to wait for his awesome wifeys return" is irrelevant... Not to mention that the money a good engineer can earn is really downplayed... Depending on his field and country he may as well earn millions in inventors remuneration. All he needs is a single good idea that is patent worthy and makes the company money... Which is not unlikely given the rapid advancement of technology the last couple decades... New stuff gets invented on a daily basis...
*squints* What kind of advice is this? Neither of my parents “backed down” or “became the supportive unit.” They were both successful professors. Granted, they also had this problem on a mini scale: my father got a job at a university, refused to help my mother get a job at the same one even though he had the option to, she ended up getting a job at a less prestigious college about two hours away. They made it work for about twenty years, even though my mom spent a lot of time in the other town. (And granted their marriage was unhappy for a lot of the time, but for others reasons.) Anyway, my advice is: do what’s right for the two of you. No one should be telling you what’s right for you, because everyone and every couple are different. And again none of the poll options fit.
You can defer the university offers for few years and support husband career first (while also working), after which they can move to the countries which university she picked and he could also move there. and logically if thats the largest engineering firm, should have branches in major countries, so he could just request for a transfer instead of starting from 0 to find new jobs in other firms. this way no one is really “sacrificing” anything
They should just break up... and spend the rest of their lives single because they can't find anyone better. Or maybe they'll meet each other twenty years later and get together again.
I’m not sure if my understanding of the situation is different, but in my country (US), it’s so hard to apply and get an entry-level job like this from overseas — I’d almost call it virtually impossible. Here companies have a requirement to prove that they are unable to find any sort of domestic talent before they can turn to hiring internationally for an H1B visa — which is such a steep hill to climb that that I would advise most people that there’s no way you can find this job if you’re any degree of a recent graduate. At the very minimum, the guy would be searching for at least 1-2 years for a job (that you can’t even be sure exists) while the girlfriend would just go and start school — and this is not even counting all the interviews to fly to. It sounds crazy, but the most realistic way to get a job (in the US) is to somehow get to the US first. The job market can be fairly competitive here, and the success rate will of getting a job applying cold is very low. Probably easily over 98% of foreign workers in the industries that I’m familiar with are people who came to the US to study (either undergraduate / graduate programs) — and used the time on the student visas to network/apply for jobs for while they were in the US. If they failed to find a job in the US while on a student visa, then it was pretty much the same as giving up — because applying from their home countries without something compelling on their resume is already next to impossible. Well, I’m Chinese by ethnicity, so the things I’ve said is heavily biased towards things I’ve seen specifically with respect to international Chinese and Indian workers trying to find jobs in the US. The US h1b foreign worker visa has country based quotas and a long application cycle. It is hardest for Chinese and Indian nationals for find jobs in the US — and actually it’s entirely lottery based. You could have a company that wants to hire you, and even then, roughly 50% of Chinese visa applications are rejected because the quota is filled. Student visas have no quota — and usually the “America first” or “Brexit” wings of US/UK have no issue with international students (although they hate foreign workers because it increases job domestic job competition). Realistically I wrote up this scenario because I think close to 90% of couples/friends I see in this situation break up — sort of along the lines that @Madoqua mentioned. ...well, at least in this stage of their life, because both parties are fairly young. That said, I’ve seen a lot of “give up on career and support partner” arrangements too, but usually that occurs in a gendered style where the female party gives up their career dreams to be with the male party. Actually my mom withdrew midway through her PhD because my dad got an extremely rare job offer 600 miles away, and the two of them didn’t want to do the long distance while married thing. On the other hand, I’ve also seen arrangements where first a couple gets married, then they separate for three years (e.g. different graduate program academic timelines in different schools) and then they move back together after they complete their respective advanced degrees. It’s influenced by the cultural values of the parents. I’m in a long 8-year graduate program, and I’ve heard a lot of people discourage their daughters from pursuing this kind of degree because the timing is poor for family making. Oh, and then you have like women who go through medical school, fall in love with surgery, and then get in huge arguments with their parents because the parent doesn’t want them to take that career for family planning reasons. I know a daughter of a family friend who was literally told they’d rather her go focus on dating because she’s getting on the older side — In India there is this very strange phenomenon where women make up the majority of medical students (approaching 70-80% in some areas), but a minority of them end up in the workforce. Many of them get married after medical school and exit the workforce— and the medical degree is seen as a trophy degree that is helpful for the marriage search.
1) They really should've talked about this in the 6 years they were dating... I would say that the person who gives up their job is the person who is more willing to. Biologically women tend to be more agreeable than men, but in this case she is probably an exception when you look at her achievements, so it could go either way. If both are very reluctant to give up, then they should do whatever variant of "long distance relationship"/"taking a break" suits them. Possibly just breaking up all together might have to be the final resort. I'm not very experienced in this kind of stuff though, so if I ever encountered people with this trouble I'd probably just keep my mouth shut. 2) I'd probably give up my career dreams, since all I want to do is become a maths teacher. If I was in a relationship with someone who was adamant about maintaining their career, I'd happily stay at home instead. Also, if things do end up eventually not working out, it's not like I can't still become a maths teacher at an older age. 3) Long distance relationships aren't worth it imo. What's the point of being in a relationship with someone if you can't ever interact with them? That's the whole point of being in a relationship for me. Along with the worrying about them cheating and the guilt about worrying about them cheating, long distance relationships are just too much stress (and limitation) for what they're worth. 4) Not going to work sounds like a jolly good time to me. I'd happily become a house-husband and watch the kids/ look after the house if I ever find myself in such a relationship that would warrant that. 5) Ideally, they wouldn't be super ambitious. As long as I have money to live fairly comfortably I'm fine, and if we're both of that same opinion then we can live comfortably together with less stress and time spent on work.
There's really 4 possibilities here, two of which I lean towards. 1. Compromise. I'm sure there's a job that will suit his ambitions and allow for her to try to reach her goals as well. It's the bedrock of any strong relationship, so it's the option I'm most in favor of. 2. Well, its the option I'm most in favor of that doesn't involve breaking up. Because that would be the option I think is most likely and also likely to be the healthiest for them as individuals. There is no such thing as true love and there will always be more other options for relationships. If they're having so much trouble with this, they likely wouldn't be able to sustain their relationship. So kill it now on friendly terms and maybe later on you'll decide to get back together (This is actually what happened with my parents funnily enough). 3. Follow your parents advice. Honestly, if one of them prefers this as an option, it's a good one. But it'll likely not work out if one of them sacrifices and regrets not having their opportunity. It'll always hang over the relationship. 4. Long-distance relationship. It's doomed. Just don't do it. Unless you really want too. And enjoy heartbreak and emotional distance.
As far as who should be the homemaker, this is something that the couple will have to discuss. Sorry to radical feminists and MRAs, but sometimes a man or woman is happy to be the housewife or house-husband. I have no problem with that provided they don't feel coerced into doing so. Also, they need to be cognizant of the fact that there are career paths they could have chosen or might choose later on.
To be honest, I actually wouldn't mind if we saw an influx of American men becoming the house-husband and the wife being the bread-winner, particularly in industries where women are often underpaid and under-represented though they would need the qualifications for said job! However, @lychee or @Ai chan as a film exec of a major American movie studio? That is a nightmare!
Break up. If this was some other scenario, I might suggest compromise but this isn't something they can compromise on. This is their dreams. Whoever gives up may seem alright with it but deep down they will feel resentment over the lost opportunity. This will keep on hanging over their relationship and whenever their spouse fails ugly thoughts like “If I had that opportunity I could do better” will pop up. It's straining on their relationship. Long distance relationship is an option but both of them will be very busy people. One is a PhD student and another just started a job in a top firm. Seeing that their signifigant other just doesn't have the time for them and is meeting more like-minded people in their new environments, even strong love can cool. I find it very hard for this relationship to last.