Report a fraudulent translation and get it delisted?

Not sure if I should be asking here or the translator's section, but what's novelupdates position on translators changing/modifying the story they are translating? That shouldn't count as a translation right?

The novel in question is Shinyu Ouji to Koshiginchaku

The "translator" is not faithfully translating the author's work, but changing things to fit their own interpretations/whims. It is more accurate to say they are rewriting the entire novel stealing the basic plot points and premise, but adding/removing lines, changing events subtley but significantly, changing the thoughts and actions of the main characters etc.

The core of this story is the internal monologue and thoughts of the MC, but there is already a noticeable divergence in the thoughts and feelings of the MC as presented by the author vs this "translation"

I have asked the "translator" about this on their site and they have confirmed that they prefer doing it this way, though he says he is doing it to preserve the fluidity of the text (this is something all translators do, it is called editing, but he is outright changing things).

Is it possible to get his translations delisted from NU? I don't think it is right for translators to change things. it is disrespectful to the author and lying to the readers who think they are reading a faithful translation, but instead get the so called translator's modified version.

 

A few tweaks here and there to enhance the plot is fine imo but if they are changing the context of the story and deviating from the plot the author has written drastically, it's less of a translation and more of a fanfic or au lol

 

4 chapters over 9 months time, hardly worth your effort though? (edit: it's only 6 chapters long so meh)

 

ALL translators change things, it's just a matter of degree because it is utterly impossible to directly translate one language to another word for word and have it legible or even coherent. Machine translations are a classic example of this. If translators did not adjust for localization, you are going to get very strange translations like "English as She is Spoke", which is also another classic example of literal translation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_She_Is_Spoke

So depending on the degree, your complaint may, or may not be valid. Just have to know that localization is necessary for ALL translations. Or you are going to get another "Backstroke of the West" (which is another excessively literal translation, believe it or not of Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith) lol.



This is what happens when you translate one language to another too literally.
Backstroke = Revenge
(of the) carries over directly
Sith = West (directly translated from Sith = Xi in Chinese = West)

i.e Revenge of the Sith = Backstroke of the West.

 

It's hard to give an opinion without specific examples. Can you show where the story or character is notably changed?

 

I think people like @null can give a better opinion regarding the degree of tampering that can be considered acceptable.

 

its a short story only 6 chapters. still, it would prevent someone else from doing a proper job

Translations are adaptations therefore they have to transfer what has been written for one language and culture to another. That is itself isn't changing though. A proper translation preserves the story, the intent, the mood, all context inflections etc. Certain things simply do not translate like honourifics in Japanese or culturally specific things. Thats where a translator tries to fill in the blanks. Though, unlike "official translations" that are written for a lay native american audience, WN translators tend to do a better job overall as they can explain things as notes etc, rather than rewriting stuff.

Also machine translation isn't a good example as MT often puts out pure rubbish. It doesnt understand context, doesnt understand expressions, idioms, cultural affairs, slang etc. I'm speaking from experience as a fellow JP translator.

anyawy going back to the topic, the so called translator is deviating significantly. Adding in their own lines, changing the context or meaning completely. The core of this story is the MC's monologue and her internal thoughts, which the translator is changing. The result is what the insight into the mind of the MC given by the translator is very different from what the author created. The thoughts and emotions presented end up very different

 

But can you quote stuff?

Like raws vs translators's translation vs what it should actually be.

 

Its Japanese novel
Better ask someone who proficient in Japanese

 

As Sena and Lissi said, can you give specific examples of this? Because what we are making judgements on is the degree of deviation, not the fact that there is deviation, which is inevitable. As such, an example of the degree of deviation would be helpful to see if you are being picky or the translator is being over liberal.

 

I'll quote a few more obvious/egregious changes, but without reading the actual story you may not see the overall significance.

FYI, I had spent an hour posting a few of these in the comments section pointing out to the "translator" to point out the differences between his version and the real version, but he literally just deleted the comment, so I have to retranslate these lines to reproduce them here. Clearly he doesn't want people to know how much he is changing things

yes im compiling a list. i had taken the time to list down an extensive set of examples and posted it as a comment in the "translator"s website, but he's since deleted the comment


---------------Example 1----------------------
He wrote:
I’m finally going back to school after such a long time, so I can’t help but feel super nervous right now, after all, I’m wearing the girl’s uniform that Her Majesty prepared for me.

To tell the truth, I didn’t want to go back to school looking like this, but I promised Vee I would, so there’s nothing much I could do about that….

Well, I originally intended to go to school looking as plain as possible to not attract much attention to myself, so I wasn’t really that worried about my appearance… that is, until I remembered what my mom said she’d do to me if I didn’t act like a proper lady.

So, since I didn’t want to have an early death, I asked my personal maids to help me look as cute as possible… and this was the result of their hard work.

“Wow… I’ve never seen that girl before… is she really a student from this school?”
“Dude, look! That girl is so pretty!”
“Hey, do you guys think she’ll go on a date with me if I ask her out?”

I thought everyone would recognize me right away when I came back to school, but that didn’t seem to be the case at all. I changed so much in this past few months, that the other students didn’t even realize I was Lenoir Miller.

(Now I feel like an idiot for even worrying about that…)




RAW:
　俺――レノア=ミリアンは緊張していた。

　久しぶりの学園。
　しかも女子制服。

　見慣れた学園に女子制服で通うなど自分がまるで変態になった気分のようになるが、ヴィーに行くと約束した手前、行かねばなるまい。

　元々ヴィーの腰巾着として恥ずかしくない容姿を保つ努力はしてきたつもりだが、女となっては勝手が違う。


「あんな子いたか？」
「可愛い……」
「なぁお前声かけてみろよ」

　引きこもり中に歩き方も矯正して付け焼き刃だがレディの動作を身に付け、しゃなりしゃなりと清楚に歩けば生徒たちは誰も俺が呪いで女になったレノア=ミリアンその人だと気付かなかった。

　……俺は何と戦っているんだ。


Proper Translation: (my rough unedited translation)

I -- Renoa Mirian am nervous.

I'm Going back to school after a long absence.
On top of that I'm wearing a girl's school uniform.

I feel like a pervert/weirdo, going back to the same school, wearing the girls' uniform, but I promised Vee I'd go to school, so I have no choice but to attend.

Originally, as Vee's attendant, I simply had to make sure my appearance would not be an embarrassment to Vee; but as a girl, things are very different.

I told my maids 「Please make me as pretty as possible so I won't be laughed at!!」when asking them to help me get ready in the morning, so they got started really early, and the preparations took a long time.

「Have you seen that girl before?」
「Kawaii...」
「Say why don't you go try and talk to her?」

While I had withdrawn from society, I had gone through slapdash training to correct my way of walking, so I had learnt how to walk like a proper lady; and as I continued to walk gracefully, none of the students realised that I was the very same Renoa Mirian, who turned into a girl after being cursed.

... Just what the hell was I struggling about?


-----EXAMPLE 2:-----
He wrote:
“Oh, Leno! You’re finally here!”

The one standing in the middle of that sea of girls was none other than Vee, and his face lit up the moment he spotted me amidst the crowd of people entering the school.

“What are you doing standing here in front of the school gate, Vee…?”

“Well, you said you were coming back to school, so I decided to wait for you here. Now come on, class will start soon. You don’t want want to be late on your first day of school after such a long time, right?”

After saying that, Vee then grabbed me by the waist and escorted me to our classroom.

Needless to say, but my face went pale as soon as Vee did that. I thought his fans would start a riot because he was acting all intimate with a girl that wasn’t them–

RAW:
「レノア！」

　その見つめられていた一点であるヴィンセント王子ことヴィーは俺を見つけると微笑み駆け寄ってきた。

「ヴィー、どうしてここに」
「レノアが来ると言っていたからな。待っていた」

　今をときめくヴィンセント王子が得体の知れない女に笑顔で駆け寄ったのだ、辺りがざわめくが当たり前。

　エスコートするように俺の腰を支えて教室まで案内をする。

　令嬢たちの金切り声が聞こえてきそうで俺は怖いよ……！

　俺としては出来ればもう少し静かに復帰したかった……。


Correct Translation:
「Renoa！」

The one at the centre of attention, Price Vincent, ie: Vee ran up to me smiling, as soon as he spotted me.

「Vee, what are you doing here?」
「You mentioned you'd be coming today, so I was waiting for you.」

The centre of everyone's attention, Prince Vincent, suddenly ran up to an unknown woman, smiling. It's only natural that the surroundings would be abuzz.
As if he were escorting me, he took me by the waist and guided me towards the classroom.

The mere thought of the excited screams from all the ladies is scary....!
I'd have preferred for my return to have been more low key if possible...


EXAMPLE 3:
He wrote:
(T-this guy…! He said he didn’t intimidate anyone, but maybe he lied to me…!?)

As we walked together to our classroom, I couldn’t help but ponder if going back to school was actually the right decision.



The reaction of my classmates upon seeing me was practically the same as the other people.

“Wow, she’s so pretty!”

“Is she a foreign student?”

“Maybe she’s a princess from some other country!”

Hearing all of that made me feel a bit embarrassed, but since I couldn’t just continue standing here throughout the whole class, I took a step forward and reintroduced myself.

“Hello again everyone, I’m Lenoir Miller. I was on sick leave until recently because of my sudden appearance change, but now I’m back.”

There was a brief moment of silence amongst my classmates after I said that. However, once they processed what I said, they became even louder than before.


RAW:
(ヴィーがやらかした令嬢を調べて『呪いのせいで神経質になっちゃってたんです』ってフォローいれとかねえと……)

俺は早速頭を痛めながらも教室にたどり着いた。



「えっ、誰……！？　留学生……！？」
「か、可愛い……」
「可憐だ……」


　ザワザワと騒めく教室にどう切り込んで良いのか悩んだが、こういうのは恥ずかしがったら負けだろう。

「この前まで休学していたレノア=ミリアンだ。姿形は変わったが変わらずよろしく頼む」

礼は流石に男用の礼をした。


　頭を上げると驚きの顔に溢れているクラスメイトたちがいた。

Correct Translation:
(When I asked Vee for details on what exactly he did to the ladies, he simply responded with 『You've become quite the worrywart since getting cursed』...)

My head immediately started to ache, but we'd arrived at the classroom.


「Eh, who's that...?! A foreign student...?!」
「ka, kawaii...」
「She's gorgeous...」

As the class was awash with murmur, I wondered how to cut in, but i can't afford to be too shy here.
「It is I, Renoa Miller, whose been on a leave of absence until now. My changed appearance aside, I hope we'll all get along.」

The bow I made ended up being rather masculine in mannerism.

When I raised my head, I saw all my classmates with surprised expressions on their faces.

 

The meaning diverted a bit too much == especially at the -
A) You mentioned you'd be coming today, so I was waiting for you.
versus
B) Well, you said you were coming back to school, so I decided to wait for you here. Now come on, class will start soon. You don’t want want to be late on your first day of school after such a long time, right?

[edit - didn't read example 3 earlier but man, those are way off]

 

Yeah looks like he expanded a bit too much but not to a terrible extent of changing the meaning though and most of the tone still got through. I'll chalk this down to either overexpository or maybe using a different/older draft of the novel but it really isn't so bad as to warrant a ban IMO. I've seen a lot worst. Which I will not name just in case it might breech the terms and conditions but this is rather mild IMO.

 

EXAMPLE 4:
He wrote:
“Hey, do you remember me? We were in charge of guiding the new students once!”
“Y-yes, of course I remember you… haha….”
“You’re really cute, you know? Do you want to go on date with me?”
“N-no, thanks….”

(Haaah∼, I’m starting to miss my old job…)

Well, on the bright side, at least Vee’s here to protect me in case something happens, so there’s no need for me to worry about anything.

“…*Whisper*…Hey, don’t you think Lenoir and Prince Vincent look good together?”
“…*Whisper*…Now that you mentioned it, I always thought they were more than friends.”

I take back what I said. There’s a lot of things I need to worry about.

RAW:
「俺覚えてる？　係で一緒になったことあるんだけど」
「は、はあ……」
「はーーっ！！　もったいねー！　ホントに男！？　女だったら絶対付き合ってたのに！　あっ　今は女か☆」
「…………」

自慢じゃないが俺はヴィーの取り巻きをやっていた、ヴィーに近付くものを排除する嫌われ者でまともに友達もいない。

「なあレノアちゃん〜」
「レノアさんにはよくヴィンセント様のお話をしていただいて――……」


みんなも『王子の取り巻き』という認識で『レノア=ミリアン』として見てたヤツなんていないだろう。

だから正直今の自分が注目される状態は非常に苦手だ。


Proper translation:
「You remember who I am? We've been on class duty together before」
「err, yea...」
「Waah!! What a waste--! Are you really a guy?! If you were a girl I'd TOTALLY date you! Ah.. you're a girl now☆」
「…………」

I'm not particularly proud of it, but back when I was Vee's hanger-on, I was widely hated as I continuously repelled all the people who were trying to get close to Vee, so I didn't really have any friends.

「Say, Renoa-chan~」
「Vincent-sama often talks about you, Renoa-san--」

I don't think anyone here saw me as that Renoa Mirian, the "Prince's hanger-on".
Thats why, I'm frankly not comfortable with being in the spotlight, as I am right now.


EXAMPLE 5:
He wrote:

After being treated like a rare animal all day long, I felt really exhausted.

The only thing I wanted to do right now, was to go home and relax as soon as possible, so I gathered my things and left the classroom.

However, as I walked down a corridor that led to the school building’s exit, a group of boys blocked the way and surrounded me.

The way they were dressed suggested that they were actually sons of nobles, but to me, they didn’t look like normal nobles at all. They looked a lot more like thugs than anything else. And to make things even worse, Vee wasn’t with me right now, so I couldn’t even ask him for help.

“Well, well, well, look who finally decided show up to school after such a long time. It seems like our dear friend Lenoir changed a lot since the last time we saw him, huh? Hahaha!”

After making that stupid joke, one of the boys started approaching me. I don’t really know who he is, but the other party seems to hate me for some reason.

“Hey, Lenoir, how’s it like being a girl? Did you masturbate with that body yet? Or did you perhaps ask your dear prince to do it for you?”

Disgusting. That was the first thing that came to my mind after hearing that. I never thought that having this kind of conversation with someone other than Vee could feel this unpleasant.

“Oh, I have a great idea! How about I play with you for a bit? That way you’ll be able to compare who’s better between me and your dear prince! Hahaha!”


RAW:
一日とにかく人目に晒され疲れ果てた放課後、帰る為に廊下を歩いていると、また男子生徒数名に囲まれた。
ヴィーがいないので道を塞がれ通るに通れないし、帰るにも後ろにも囲まれて動けない状態になっていた。

貴族のお坊ちゃんだ、普通の令嬢にはこんなことしないだろう。
ほぼ見知らぬ人ではあるが元男であるという気安さからレディファーストはしてもらえなかった。

「なあ……ぶっちゃけ女の身体って『どう』なの？」
下心しかないにやにやと薄気味悪い顔でたずねてくる。

「どう……って、言われても」

　下品な笑いに不快指数はうなぎ登りだ。

「自慰とかした？」

認識の違いだ。相手は多分軽い冗談のつもりなのだろう。
だが、『気持ち悪い』と思う、セクハラと怯える女性の気持ちが初めて理解できた気がした。

「ちょっとおっぱいとか揉ませてくれよ！　減るもんじゃないし！」

Proper Translation:
By the time school ended, I was exhausted from being the centre of everyone's attention all day. As I was walking down the hallway to head home, I was once again surrounded by several male students.
Because Vee wasn't with me, they blocked the path and I couldn't pass through them, nor could I turn back since they'd surrounded me so that I couldn't leave.

Noble boys wouldn't usually entrap a girl like this.
Despite us being strangers, as I was a former man, they were overly familiar and not behaving like gentlemen (giving the "ladies first" treatment).

「Say, frankly speaking, what's a girl's body *feel* like?」
he asked, with a creepy smile that did nothing to hide his ulterior motives.

「I'm not quite sure what you mean...」
My level of discomfort is rising with their disgusting laughter.

「You frigged yourself yet?」

There's a clear difference in how we perceive this situation. They're probably thinking it's just a light joke.
However for me it feels "revolting". For the first time, I can understand why girls fear sexual harassment.

「Say, leme squeeze your boobs for a bit! Not like its a big deal for you right?」

I use dark mode too!. Dark grey for the RAW seems easy enough to read in both light and dark modes for me though

Hopefully examples 4 and 5 might be more clear how the so called "translator" is adding and changing stuff that isn't there at all.

The RAW hasn't been edited since 2018, but this "translation" was published in 2021.

I think calling it as merely "took some liberties" is being extremely generous to the "translator". They've added whole new lines, changed the meaning of things in the story here and there and in places the mood presented in the original novel doesnt match up to the translation at all. IMO their work is more akin to someone on scribblehub stealing the original story and publishing their own version that just copies the general outline. I don't see it as a faithful translation at all. Every single line is different from the RAW.

 

I think you might as well create your own version and link it on NU. It seems like your issue is not that they're changing the translations but that they're changing the translations for *this particular novel* that you're probably interested in translating yourself?

 

no my issue is that they are changing the translations full stop. There are plenty of other titles I can translate. I do however take issue when ANY translation is fraudulent and unfaithful to the actual source material

 

Then you're probably wasting your energy here lol

But you can maybe try directly contacting a mod for that.

 

Mods already replied to the thread. The OP's complaint isn't valid, the translation is more than faithful enough to the raws to remain listed.

NU doesn't judge quality of translation, the translator has the right to take some liberties when translating.