That's not my opinion, it's a fact. It is a webtoon adaptation of a novel. If the novel didn't sell well, the webtoon adaptation wouldn't have even started. If the webtoon didn't sell well, it would have been scrapped on the early chapters instead of being allowed to run for over 100 chapters. You have all the right to dislike the novel, but trying to pretend it didn't sell well is plain silly at the minimum or downright disingenuous at worse. No webtoon adaptation with 100+ chapters sold poorly, period. The source work sold well, that's why it got an adaptation. The adaptation sold well, that's why it kept on running. We're not talking about hobbyists making webnovels for fun, we're talking about the Korean webnovel/webtoon business here. Stuff that doesn't sell doesn't get adapted, it's as simple as that. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're the majority when you're hating a popular series... You're not. At most you're part of the vocal minority. Again, no problem in having your opinions, it's all good. We can disagree on opinions about a given work all day... But trying to think that the webtoon and the webnovel didn't sell well when it was adapted to a webtoon? When it requires stuff like licensing fees, paying the author and artists on all the adaptation work and to keep it running for over 100 chapters? Now that's just plain silly. If the adaptation was doing poorly, it would have been scrapped really quickly. Look up the term "Vocal Minority" for the reviews end. For ratings, NU has 269 votes total, which is a minimal number of ratings that hardly matters as far as the Korean business cares. Also worth note, the ratings are heavily split into basically 5* and 1* ratings, meaning that the novel is divisive, not that it's hated. A bunch of 1-2* ratings would mean it's disliked, a large number of both 5* and 1* means that some people really love it and some people really hate it... And again, the sample size of NU and REDACTED is laughably small, so it's not relevant. Also worth note that the people that love the novel are the paying customers, so they're the more relevant group. And their number is large enough to make this novel get a webtoon adaptation. Moreover, why are you bringing the minimal numbers of ratings that NU+REDACTED gets, when the Tappytoon page of Abandoned Empress has 6.7M views? Or rather, did you even see that this webtoon on REDACTED has 3.6M views? You think this is unpopular? This novel is absurdly popular. It has 3.6M pirated views and 6.7M paid views... This novel is incredibly loved. People wouldn't have paid for it if they didn't love it. Like, seriously, if you look at Scribblehub, you can see that the most popular novel on that website has 5.5M views, and it's freely available and has 838 chapters... Abandoned Empress has 6.7M paid views with only 145 chapters, plus another 3.6M Pirated views... This novel/webtoon was insanely popular, and loved too by the exact same metric. Well, no, this thread is all about OP wanting to watch the shitshow, but... Hey, it kinda works for venting too, but it's still surprising to see people come to these super old threads just to vent and then leave.
Ok, you're right about the views as long as its sells, the publishers don't care. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the fact that many readers absolutely despise this garbage story. Just because it has that many views don't reflect how good a story is. One example are those popular trash chinese CEO manhuas, another would be those popular shitty harem novels (which AE is also but is categorized as a false harem).
Oh, sure, I don't deny that many readers do hate it. I just know that they aren't the majority. Like, it can still be a large number, since the number of readers is pretty high and stuff, it's just smaller than the number of people who do like it. Oh, I agree on that too. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would watch Boruto, for example, and the series is clearly popular.
Same, I can't for the life of me think why can't they just end it with Naruto. They just want to milk the watchers with money, you can see it with those many filler episodes. Anyways, the only reason I kept reading AE was because I want to support the artist. Poor artist even had to take shit from readers who can't distinguish what an author and artist are.
damn i really made this person mad lmao it's understandable wanting to support someone on a project, but it's fine not to read something you don't like. your time and money is valuable, why spend it on something that makes you unhappy?
I was attracted by the artist too why is it that all good artists are always adapting the novels with a terrible leading character like they're always jerks or assholes
She has no respect for herself ughhh "even when i had a miscarriage and became infertile, i was sad because he wouldn't be interested in me again" Like what gurl ??? That's just the most weird toxic behavior I've ever read??? The way she calls that tiny upturn at the corners of the mouth a "warm smile" is like when people post the most pancake-ass anime boys drooling over how "thicc" they are. Raise your standards! “Even though he discarded my wishes… I was still happy” Barf Still, thank you for showing, glad i missed out.
I’m genuinely trying to not direct my dislike towards the author and just keep it contained to their work, but like, what the actual fuck? You basically have the author espousing that the main tragedy in a miscarriage was the fact that she wouldn’t be getting his attention anymore. At this point I can only surmise that the author herself is… I don’t know, morally bankrupt. The entire in-story society and 90% of the characters are utterly morally repugnant. Who is this work for?
Dxmn this thread is fire Ngl I stayed 3 hours to read it And girl I wasn't disappointed And I'm not gonna give my opinion because I don't want to get fired at. :')
Do you have any idea or theory why there aren't more very progressive thought-provoking works like LIGHT & SHADOW, BEWARE OF THE VILLAINESS, THE PET OF THE VILLAINESS and THE MONSTER DUCHESS & THE CONTRACT PRINCESS in the Fantasy Romance Novel Genre? Some of these stories became popular enough and have been copied several times and then turned into a convenient melodrama with the same old annoying tropes/clichés/plot twists. Is it because they/original nuanced stories are harder to market and conservative toxic trashy content are way cheaper/easier to sell?
Different authors prefer writing stories that focus on different kinds of things. No big mystery there. Some authors just write things that fit your taste better.
LONG, DETAILED SPOILERS EXPLAINING WHY SHE ENDED UP WITH THE PRINCE I know everyone is pissed that Tia ends up with Ruve after he r*ped her, killed her family, her unborn child, and her, but there's a reason for all that. Spoiler So the background is, Ruve's father, the Emperor, has always been very cold and distant to him, raising him with harsh expectations and no love. The Emperor was actually in love with Tia's mom, Jeremiah. Keiran (Tia's dad) was engaged to be married with another woman (Karsein's mother actually) in a political marriage, but he also fell in love with Jeremiah. Jeremiah was in love with Keiran, not the Emperor. The only person in the empire who can break off the official engagement between Keiran & Karsein's mom is the emperor, but obviously the emperor wants them to get married so he can hopefully marry Jeremiah. However, Keiran offers to swear an oath of absolute loyalty to the Emperor if he will give up on Jeremiah and allow Keiran to marry Jeremiah by breaking the official engagement. The Emperor/King is actually a very just, wise man and he realizes he cannot put his own personal feelings ahead of the good of the Empire, so he gives up on his love for Jeremiah and breaks off Keiran's engagement so Keiran can marry Jeremiah and then Jeremiah gives birth to Tia. Just some background, I'm probably mixing them up (?) but Tia's family is part of the "Aristocrats" (I think) which mainly support the Emperor and on the other side you have the "nobles" or something, which oppose the emperor. The emperor is actually not as powerful as you think, as the noble faction have basically 50% the power of the empire and the Emperor+aristocrats the other 50%. The emperor needs to ensure the aristocrat faction that supports him is unified (there's in-fighting inside both factions), which is why he wanted Keiran to swear an oath of absolute loyalty to him. Tia has her father's coloring, but looks exactly like Jeremiah, which is why the Emperor (who was in love with Jeremiah), loves her so much and treats her like a daughter. He gives her all the love he has and gives zero love to his son. The reason is because in order to survive as Emperor, you have to be cold, logical, rational, and strong-willed. He does love prince Ruve a lot, but was perhaps misguided. The aristocrats all have harsh expectations on Ruve to grow up to be intelligent, rational, capable so everyone is always telling him "You need to stop whining, you need to be better". On the other hand, Tia is naturally gifted and smart and everyone always says "Tia is so amazing, we love her so much!" Imagine being a young boy, growing up and seeing how everyone, including your own father, loves Tia so much and nobody gives any love to you at all. Of course he grows to resent Tia. Only two people ever showed "love" to Ruve, which is Jeremiah and Duke Jenna/Zena (or whatever his name is, the main villain). However, when Jeremiah gets assassinated later on, she happily gives up her life to protect Tia, while ignoring Ruve (who was also in the same room), so Ruve feels betrayed that Jeremiah didn't care about him at all, which I mean, of course this woman will protect her biological daughter over the unrelated prince. Like Jeremiah rushes to Tia and covers Tia with her body, while leaving Ruve to fend for himself against the assassins. After this, Duke Zena is the only person who shows any "love" to Prince Ruve, which is why he believes anything Zena says. Zena basically tells Ruve that Tia is an unfeeling, incredibly manipulative and intelligent woman who is out to marry him so she can get more power for her household and the aristocrat faction. Thus Ruve hates Tia even more. Tia, on the other hand, despite being loved by everyone, also has really harsh expectations put on her and she feels she cannot show any weakness, that she must prove herself to be a capable Empress. She actually does have trouble expressing her feelings which is why Zena's whole "she has no feelings" rings true to Ruve. However, through her actions, Tia proves that she cares deeply about the Empire, her household, and even Ruve. However, one day Ji-Eun magically appears and is denoted the "child of god" and the one who is supposed to be empress. Ji-Eun is basically an average Korean 16 year old girl. Imagine getting thrown into a game of thrones setting at 16. She lost her friends and family and is completely alone in the new world. Zena tells Ji-Eun about all the s**t that goes down and basically says "If you don't manage to get Prince Ruve's support, you will probably get r*ped and killed cause the politics here are deadly". He also tells Ji-Eun "Ruve is desperate for love, so just be happy and smiling and tell him you love him". So Ji-Eun, terrified for her life, does everything she can to seduce Ruve and he falls in love with her because she is "honest" with her feelings and "innocent". Thus Tia becomes the "abandoned empress" and Ji-Eun the actual empress. Ji-Eun now gets to enjoy a life of luxury and wealth, while Tia does all the official Empress duties as the "Queen". The Empire is thriving and everyone thinks "Life is so good and our Empress is such a wonderful, kind, happy person, while that b***h Tia thinks she's so much better than everyone. She always acting so stuck up." NOW THE IMPORTANT PART. Zena's plans are in motion and he wants even more power, so he begins to poison Ruve with a psychotropic drug that makes him angry, bipolar, and schizophrenic. He also feeds lies to Ruve and Ruve hears the people+staff... basically everyone saying how Tia is a total smug, superior b***h who is power-hungry and pissed off her plans to get power failed cause Ji-Eun showed up. There are rumors that Tia wants to assassinate Ji-Eun so she can get back the place of Empress. Ruve confronts Tia and wants her to be honest with him, but she basically thinks "I'm scared of you, I cannot be honest with you" and tells him "you won't believe me anyway" and Ruve goes "So you're basically admitting all the rumors about you are true." Now don't forget he is drugged with those psychotropic drugs, so that's when he r*pes her. And of course, he later pushes her and causes her to miscarry. He does feel extremely guilty about this, but when Tia finds out she miscarried and can no longer have children (her womb is damaged), she laughs crazily in front of many maids/servants, basically cursing god (Vita) for her life. Zena and the palace staff report that Tia laughed like crazy, saying "I'm so glad I don't have to give birth to that f**ker's baby. Thank god I had a miscarriage". Of course Ruve gets pissed off at this and thinks what kind of monster is happy her baby died. Thus Tia just confirmed all the rumors about her. Tia's father, Keiran, understands Tia is unhappy and miserable and begs Ruve to take Tia away. He wants to fake her death and have her live quietly in another country. At the same time, Zena fakes an assassination on Ji-Eun and blames Tia for it, but Ruve has some moments of clarity. He thinks "If Tia wants to escape to another country, why would she risk killing Ji-Eun? The only point in killing Ji-Eun is if Tia wants to stay and become Empress." I'm kind of confused too with the novel/webtoon, but I think there's not enough evidence to tie Tia + Keiran + her house into the assassination attempt, but Ruve & Tia fight and he lies to her that he killed her father, because he wants to hurt her in retaliation for her laughing that their unborn child died. Tia, who was also poisoned by Duke Zena, goes crazy upon hearing her father was killed and stabs Ruve. Of course, now there is enough evidence that Tia committed treason, attempted assassination of the Emperor, so Zena and everyone votes to have her executed. Ruve actually votes against them but is outvoted. He only wants Tia banished to another country. He was actually trying to grant her wish to escape the palace. He was setting her free. However, Tia is executed and dies thinking Ruve had killed her father and sentenced her to death when none of that actually happened. Anyway, now that Tia is gone, Ruve continues to get crazier after being poisoned with the drugs, Zena causes unrest in the Empire by continuing to gather more power, and Ji-Eun must now do all of Tia's duties. How can you expect a modern 16-21 year old girl to run an Empire? Ji-Eun makes a ton of dumb decisions and that with all the other crazy going on means the Empire goes to ruins. All the people that used to praise Ji-Eun and say "Tia is so smug and unlikable" suddenly turn on Ji-Eun. Suddenly everyone says "Ji-Eun is such a dumbass. How can anyone be so dumb? She's probably faking dumb and is actually evil and wants us to all suffer and die. Nobody can be THAT dumb. When Tia was Queen, she was so smart and the Empire was thriving." Basically everyone regretted tr*shing Tia and wished she were still alive and the Empress. Ji-Eun is devastated that suddenly everyone turned on her and one day Ruve finally tells her, after another dumb decision, "Why are you so dumb? I wish you had died and Tia was Empress". Ji-Eun also gets pregnant at this time and feels so alone and powerless and worried about the future of her baby. Ruve has figured out at this time that Zena is not his "father figure" but was actually poisoning him and that everything about Tia was a lie. For instance, Ji-Eun keeps saying she loves him but after 5 (?) years together, has no idea what his favorite/disliked foods are, whereas Tia figured it out within a couple of weeks. Tia also took so much pressure off him by handling many Empire matters for him, whereas Ji-Eun actually stresses him out with more work with her dumb decisions. He realizes Tia loved him and showed it through actions, just not words, while Ji-Eun's words were empty and hollow and betrayed by her careless actions. Ruve also realizes that he is dead soon, especially if Ji-Eun gives birth to a son, since Zena will kill him and then assume the role of "regent", while raising and brainwashing the baby who will one day inherit the empire. Ruve has a way to save his life by killing Ji-Eun and he considers it, but realizes that killing her + the unborn child will be doing the same thing to her what he did to Tia, something he regrets with all his heart. And in case you forgot, he actually wanted to save her life and send her away from the empire, just Zena + the nobles were too powerful and ordered Tia executed. I think the webtoon actually portrayed this badly since they showed Ruve kind of with a superior/unfeeling look on his face while she was executed, when in reality he wanted to spare her. So he instead realizes he's lost and Zena will now take over the Empire, so he gives up on being Emperor and tries to run away, but Zena gets wind of this and sends soldiers to assassinate Ruve. Ruve falls down a cliff and as he lies dying, he gazes up at the moon (the king is the sun and the moon symbolizes the queen/empress) and he thinks the moon is Tia and basically begs her for forgiveness and thinks death is not so bad since he will be reunited with Tia. This is all background and Tia gets sent back in time, of course. SECOND TIMELINE This time, Tia realizes she should be more "open" with her feelings and she's not actually alone, there's so many people who support her and love her. Don't forget she also thought her father was somewhat "unfeeling" but realized he risked his life and household to make her happy. He begged Ruve to fake her death and let her live quietly in another country, showing how much he actually loved her. Thus 2nd timeline (2TL) Tia shows her emotions more and Ruve, seeing Tia showing all these emotions and laughing with Karsein + Allen, realizes she is not unfeeling and cold. Also, don't forget that Tia inheriting her household makes it impossible for her to become Empress (due to some rules and stuff), so how can Tia be power-hungry and out to manipulate him, Ruve, when she appears to want to break off the engagement? Thus 2nd timeline (2TL) Ruve realizes a lot of what Zena said about Tia was a lie. Oh, and BIG SPOILER ABOUT ALLEN, but Allen, despite being much more capable than his brother, is passed over in favor of his older brother. Allen wants to inherit the household, thinking he is better than his brother, but the parents think it's unfair, since the oldest son is supposed to inherit. Even though Allen is definitely better, the oldest son is capable still. Allen thinks this means his parents don't really love him and he gets driven to Zena's side as a spy. Allen also is sociopathic and possessive of Tia. At one point, he considers killing her father, Keiran, because Keiran sees through Allen's true nature. He also kind of has an erot*c daydream about strangling Tia to death so she will always be his. His other plot is to kidnap Tia and keep her locked up in a secret house forever, so she will belong to him only. However, he does have a moment of clarity where he realizes he is f**ked up in the head and he double-crosses Zena to the current Emperor, who sends Allen away to another country, but thanks him for realizing the error of his ways. So Allen did love Tia enough to realize his love for her was messed up and psychotic. He willingly went away to protect Tia from himself. Ruve falls in love with Tia because of how expressive and lively she is in the second timeline, and also because, if you've forgotten, he loved Jeremiah (Tia's mother) because only Jeremiah + Zena ever showed him love +affection, and Tia resembles Jeremiah. After Ruve died in the first timeline, Ji-Eun gives birth to a girl, who cannot inherit the throne and with Ruve dead, it means the royal lineage is broken. Zena can now over take the throne legally, so he decides to kill Ji-Eun and stabs her and her baby daughter to death. Ji-Eun b****es to god/Vita about how unfair her life was and Vita (God) offers Ji-Eun a choice. She can send Ji-Eun back to modern day Korea with her memories completely erased, or she can send Ji-Eun back to the moment she arrived in the Abandoned Empress world with her memories intact. Ji-Eun does miss Korea + her family, but don't forget this choice came literally 10 seconds after she got stabbed in the stomach by her "friend" Duke Zena. Ji-Eun hates Ruve for abandoning her ("I wish Tia was alive and you were dead instead"), hates Zena for manipulating and killing her, and most of all, hates that Tia took everyone's love even in death. Remember, after the Empire started to crumble, the people and Ruve all said they regretted how they treated Tia and wished she was the Empress and said Ji-Eun was dumb tr*sh. Ji-Eun also thinks if she runs away to Korea with her memories erased, it means admitting to herself she lost to Tia, that she is and will always be inferior to Tia. She thinks if she actually works hard she can match Tia and become a powerful empress who can take revenge on Prince Ruve + Duke Zena. Thus in her anger and pride, she chooses to relive a second life instead of going back home to Korea. When Ji-Eun arrives this time, she does everything she can to seduce Ruve because she wants to make him fall in love with her so she can then toss him aside and destroy him, the Empire, and Zena. But at this point Ruve only loves Tia and none of Ji-Eun's attempts work. So she instead asks Zena to adopt her, so she can have the aristocrat backing and become Empress. Her second goal, of course, is to spy on Zena and find out his weakness so she can kill him. Zena though is smart and while he wants to manipulate Ji-Eun and make her Empress, doesn't trust Ji-Eun at all. By the way, Ji-Eun has a special power where she can heal flowers/plants, just not humans. Tia's power from God is that she can hear Vita's voice/holy messages, just like some priests can. Anyway, yada yada, s**t happens and then one day Tia gets stabbed and almost dies, but Ji-Eun who finally realizes that neither Ruve nor Tia are the true villains, begs God to save Tia's life and Vita/God tells Ji-Eun she can save Tia by giving up her magical powers and losing her status as a "child of god". Ji-Eun willingly does so and Tia's life is saved. Ji-Eun works with Ruve + Tia to bring down Zena and Zena does get judged for his crimes and his whole household is beheaded and killed. Ji-Eun saw herself as a protagonist in an isekai novel, thinking that she was the main character and Tia was the villainess out to steal her position and love, but realized in the end, she was actually the villainess. This is why she saves Tia's life, because she wants redemption. She also regrets so much not taking Vita/God's offer to go back to Korea with her memories erased. Ruve and everyone else in the Empire wants to kill Ji-Eun, since she is a co-conspirator and Zena's adopted daughter, but Tia begs them for mercy, however, Tia is overruled, just like first timeline Ruve was overruled when he asked for clemency for Tia. Tia visits Ji-Eun in prison and asks why Ji-Eun hated her so much and why Ji-Eun decided to save her. Ji-Eun tells Tia "I was supposed to be the protagonist, I was supposed to be loved and have a happily ever after, but even in death you stole that from me. Ruve & the people told me they loved you more and that I was useless tr*sh. You have everything that I don't have." At this point Tia gets pissed and goes "WTF. Ruve + the people executed me and treated me like tr*sh for years. How can you be jealous of me?" At this point Ji-Eun goes "Be honest, you looked down on me." And Tia does admit she looked down on Ji-Eun as being dumb and incompetent and was upset that Ruve + the people loved her despite Ji-Eun being a dumb Empress. The girls both find it ironic they envied the other. At this point Tia gives Ji-Eun an option, which Ruve agreed to. She gives Ji-Eun two bottles, one with real poison and one with a Romeo+Juliet poison that will fake death. Ji-Eun can choose to die or she can be smuggled away to another country and live there quietly for the rest of her life. Tia tells Ji-Eun "this is your choice" and then walks away and you never find out what choice Ji-Eun chose but in side stories I think it says she chose to live. Tia & Ruve get married and have 2 daughters + 1 son. The daughter inherits the Marquess household while the son becomes the greatest Emperor in the history of the Empire. Vita had originally said the "blessed child of god" would bring eternal happiness to the empire, but in the first timeline, the empire crumbled due to Zena and everyone (including Zena) lost. In the second timeline, they all lived happily ever after, except Zena + ji-Eun. Since Ji-Eun gave up her powers, Tia is the only "child of god" in the second timeline. Also, Ji-Eun eventually comes to peace with her life and lives a quiet, but fulfilled life as an ordinary person in another country. Kind of bittersweet she never got to see her Korea family again, but that was her choice and she has to live with it. / btw I found it somewhere else and shared it here!
What's with this redundant and useless post? This is already posted in the closed spoiler thread. I hope anyone will refrain from doing this in the future.
This discussion thread is more interesting than the actual story lol. Anyways, here's my take; See, the problem with the whole 'he was a completely different person' thing is that even though they tell us that a bunch, we're never actually shown how he's different. All we see of Ruve in the original timeline is him beating and raping his wife after cheating on her. Yeah, the current timeline Ruve doesn't do any of that... but like that isn't really a high bar to clear? The only clear change I can see is that original Ruve was an irredeemable abusive piece of shit while current Ruve is... not that? What changed about him? That in this timeline he would never rape his wife? And he cares about people and feels emotions? That's like the bare minimum for being a decent human being. It's also very icky to me that the catalyst for his change is Aristia going back in time. Put it this way- what if she hadn't gone back in time? Nothing would've changed with him, he would've still been the same piece of shit from before, and we know this for a fact because we've seen the original timeline. It's really gross to me how this frames Aristia, the traumatised abuse victim, as the one ultimately responsible for whether or not he abuses her. He would never have changed if specifically his abuse victim didn't 'fix' him and that's such a toxic character dynamic. Another thing is the pacing. Literally the first thing we see in the whole manhwa is him being abusive. And the manhwa barely gives any indication that he's changing for like the entire first half. Which means we spend the entire first half the story thinking that they're essentially the same person because, again, the manhwa doesn't tell us anything about original Ruve's personality other than 'abuser'. Abusive people also have times when they act not-abusive, that's not enough for us to believe that he might be different. So we spend ages staring at his face, which is the exact same face as original Ruve, and every time we see it we're reminded of those first few chapters. All of that isn't going to magically disappear just because a few characters go 'oh but he's different now'. I'd wager that most people (including me) read the 'Abandoned Empress' thing as referring to her first life, where she became the Empress but was then abused by piece-of-shit Ruve. So that's another way we're constantly reminded about the original timeline. Also, Carsein was the fan favourite mainly because he's the only normal guy around Aristia, not because of any cute scenes or anything. Ruve has the same face as her abuser and the green one is a manipulative snake. Like there's no other option that isn't awful. EXECUTION MATTERS EXECUTION MATTERS EXECUTION MATTERS. It's pointless just having a plot outline that says 'they're two different people'. Heck, I could write an OI if that's all you need. What matters more is how the author actually executes those plot points, and in this case, it was extremely poorly executed, which bleeds over to how people percieve these characters. Think BBC Sherlock- there's a difference between actually showing us how smart this character is using clever writing and subtle hints, and just shouting 'HE'S VERY SMART 100IQ TRUST US' at the camera every five seconds. Tldr: we're not given enough actual evidence that Ruve is a different person, having Aristia be the one responsible for 'fixing' him is extremely gross, we aren't given any indication that he's supposed to be a different person until like halfway through the story and by then we've pretty much made up our minds about him, and the story keeps reminding us about the horrific abuse with the title and literally his face is the same as the abuser
Recommendation: Go read 'Knight of the Frozen Flower' if you want the good version of TAE. Ignoring the curse in the prologue, it's everything we wanted TAE to be. Besides the whole “curse” part (which I guess was supposed to a commentary on ‘Lookism’ and how people treat others based on appearance♀️), I highly liked that the FL held on and made accountable of the negative actions done towards her (past or present). I loved that she was disgusted by the prince being all friendly towards and trying to ‘woo’ her, knowing what a two-faced hypocrite he really is; and that she has clearly made up her mind to have nothing to do with him (no wavering or backsliding for her ). Also liked that she held that mage accountable for his (in)actions towards her too (he left her for dead), was pissed, and not easily forgiving (even though the narrative is trying hard to make him “cute” and “sympathetic”) to him either. Though I find him very generic, I’m glad the obvious ML is spelt out for us, and it’s not another case of “giving the asshole another chance when he’s done nothing to deserve it besides ‘another timeline’, ‘slightly nicer now’, or ‘my sad backstory, uwu feel sorry for me’”.
this thread is finally dead after years and years of fighting lol anyway tia is a retarded dmb bitch and ruve is an asshole truly a match made in hell
“…I’m sorry, your majesty.” (ch 135) “Oh… forgive me, your majesty.” (ep 97) “Sorry, your [highness]. I am...” (ch 162) If I had a shot of the smoothest tequila on earth for every time Aristia la Monique apologised for something she didn't need to apologise for, I would be dead. What is quite literally dead, however, appears to be this thread; this is something I cannot have. You see, I only found this discussion forum today, and because I am a grouchy, curt, and petulant person, I absolutely must have my way (hear that, @comeetomama? I shall single-handedly revive this thread, mwahahahaa!). Indeed, critiquing The Abandoned Empress (TAE) is good for the mental health. Today, as I was taking my classic morning shit, I remembered something. Just like how one may recall an embarrassing moment seemingly out of the blue, so happened that I remembered TAE. I recalled writing a review about this webcomic years ago. I did/do not like it, but the story captured my interest very quickly; and since mama didn’t raise me to be a quitter, I, inevitably, stuck around. Around the time when the webcomic was wrapping up, I moved on to the novel. I hated that more. So up I go, off my toilet bowl and decided ‘hey, maybe there’s a discussion forum for this’. Turns out, there was. Turns out, I made a novelupdates account some time ago but never used it. Well, bitches and bros and non-binary hoes, it is time I do so. I have chosen to divide my TED text into two separate comments: first, a general overview of the said thread, coupled with an additional piece by yours truly; second, a discussion of characters that many people tended to like—Papa, Carsein, etc.—who I take some issue with, plus other miscellaneous things. I’ll be using quotes from both the web novel (indicated using ‘ch’) and the manhwa (indicated using ‘ep’). I know, I’m an absolute mad lad. Evidently, I will be stirring up some old shit because I am a person who feels no shame in commenting after about a year of relative silence. Now then, let us begin. A lot of the thread went off on tangents that one might consider to be red herrings. For instance, the discussion of censorship (which stemmed from a single comment that got way too much screen time), was fired up because one person, a self-proclaimed author, started projecting and got very personal about it. Censorship & the liberties of authors is indeed an important topic, but not for TAE. That’s not what this thread is about. It’s about discussing why did/didn’t you like TAE. Same with how many views TAE got, why it was published, or why TAE is illogical because it has a fantasy element. Unimportant, these only aim to distance people from the actual story, which is, again, the reason why we all gathered here at some point in time. Other replies were obsessively masturbating to the butterfly effect and the idea of time travel, and how this story is not set in the 21st century. One person even said that “it takes place in a magical medieval century—” dear me “—where kings could work an entire peasant village to death for a dress.” Oh, my goodness, I think my eyeballs are bleeding. Full stop, amigos. Nothing about this story is medieval, nor is it historical. This modern author created a modern work for modern viewers to read. They chose a pseudo-European world setting with some distant semblance of some past period that cannot be identified. There are plenty of modern-day notions in this author’s work. Just because there are empires and kings and whatever, just because the men wear suits and the women wear dresses, means zilch in the end, because we can relate to the MC and other characters due to their modern perspectives. Others more whom I tended to agree with (@Dimension Breaker, I’m sorry buddy, I’m singling you out) could get rather frustrated with other commenters. I understand that feeling, but sometimes it was handled rather poorly. Moving on t— ZAP. Suddenly, @AliceShiki spawns next to me like a Minecraft character. My hazel orbs widen as I stare at the unknown girl, unsure of what to do. Before I could say anything, Alice begins twiddling her thumbs, mumbling to me. “Uhn…it’s really annoying~ @Lourie was talking about the author’s subpar depiction of PTSD. I don’t particularly care about that, and I also don’t think that this story glorifies abuse. And, and, and…” Alice looks up at me. Small tears begin dotting the corner of her eyes, sparkling under the nearby lamplight. “…and it's a lot harder to define something as abuse if it is not physical. Emotional abuse of course exists, but it is complicated to define and is very subjective.” My expression softens into a deep sigh. “Shhhhhh,” I say, as I grab the warm glass of milk sitting on my table next to me. “Enough, Alice. That’s enough. You were farming messages like the troll that you are. I understand.” Slowly and seductively, I pour the milk atop her head, caressing her face with my free hand as I watch the liquid trickle down their hair and onto the ground. “Perhaps this milk will help ease the stench.” “She HAS to get over it because it literally never happened, she has no one to talk to about it and not getting over it will only result in problems for her and her alone. Personally, she's justified in not trusting him. Realistically tho, she's in the wrong. Ruve didn’t have to realize his actions were wrong because he never committed those actions, TL1 Ruve did.” I whip my head around, looking toward the sudden voice. It was @Nuzlocke. They stand there, puffing out their chest in pride, resolute in their beliefs. I proceed to pull out my imaginary dick and take a whiz on their shoes. “Hush now, Nuzzlecock,” I start, “the rapist apologist in you is a little too visible.” Did you catch it? The point about the two Ruves? That is, in essence, the foundation for one of the two main points folks use to ‘justify’ this story. The Abandoned Empress is polarising, ultimately setting its readers into two main ‘camps’: let’s call those who like the story the ‘defenders’, and those who are ‘against’ the webcomic/novel as such. Some—perhaps many—people swim in between, not really giving a hoot about the story and reading it just because. They don't really care because, well, this story just didn't mean much to them. In any case, let’s look at the ‘defenders’ main points: TL1 Ruve and TL2 Ruve are two different people. Therefore, because TL2 Ruve develops into an entirely different person separate from TL1, Monique and him ought to at least have some chance at love. Going back in time gives everyone a clean slate, including Ruveliss. Therefore, Ruve should not be held accountable for what happened in TL1, because none of that stuff actually happened. He has not yet become the person that Monique remembers from when she was 17. Next, let us look at the main points presented by those ‘against’ TAE: It does not matter that there are two timelines because Monique remembers everything. Trauma transcends timelines, existing despite the world being wiped clean of the horrors of the first timeline. Therefore, it is unreasonable for Ruve and Monique to end up together given that he was the one who abused her. The damage has been done, and it cannot be undone. Ruveliss #2 has not changed a whole lot; he still exhibits certain characteristics reminiscent of the past which Monique remembers. Therefore, he is not a changed man, he just happens to like Monique this time around. I wonder if you’re able to determine the problem. One of the key reasons for the divide amongst readers is how individuals perceive ‘abuse’. People like to draw their own lines around abuse, claiming such and such is abuse but something else isn’t; whereas the next reader over will say “no, both instances are abuse.” For example, Alice claimed that “[t]he definition of emotional abuse is very subjective” in response to @Lamune44 ’s comment demonstrating how Ruve abused Monique in the second timeline. This is also true when you see readers who feel as though Monique’s trauma was handled poorly by the author vs those who don’t see it that way. However—and this is the kicker—the weight of the abuse Monique suffered will weigh differently on the individual reader. I feel very strongly about abuse, as do many others on this forum. This, in turn, reflects why this story upset many people. What I will focus on is the rape of Monique and its subsequent dismissal. In real life, some might not even realize they are rapists or were raped because they are/were not equipped with the proper tools to distinguish such. This can be argued as being the issue with Monique; she lessens the crimes committed against her in chapter 225: “Even when he raped me, I wasn't scared. I felt sad at the fact that he had sex with me though he never loved me. I wanted him to be more friendly, but I felt heartbroken when he turned heartless after he was done. Even when I realized that I lost a baby, or when I realized that I could not be pregnant again, I just felt sad at the fact that I could never get his attention again, but I never hated him before I realized my father's love, who I thought was never precious to me.” The aforesaid paragraph sets Monique up to be, arguably, a bad guy; a person who did not care about her baby and who was cruel and cold-hearted. Isn't that absolutely wild?! It also sets Monique up as someone wholly starved of love and affection because her dear-old dad neglected her. We knew that latter point for some time now, but it's all indicative of a child who grew up abused and who adopted a distorted view of love. Further, we don’t get some much-needed insight on Ruveliss. How does he view sex? How does he view consent? How does he view rape? Did those views change after reading the letter Allendis wrote? Who knows! Beats me! Perhaps it boils down to people having a difficult time understanding abuse, especially if they themselves have not been abused. You see this when people ask questions like ‘why did that person go back to their significant other who hurt them? Aren’t they just being stupid?’ there are, in fact, several reasons 'why', but those reasons only become apparent if one takes the time to research it rather than toss the blame on the victim. This can be applied to understanding rape and its impacts as well. So, how does one become more in tune with the consequences of neglect & abuse & rape? What about understanding the impacts of certain topics such as PTSD, sexual assault, etc.? Simple: research. As a starter, if anyone is curious, I have compiled a tiny list to help get one foot off the ground: "Women’s experiences of marital rape and sexual violence within marriage in India: evidence from service records". It is a National Institutes of Health article. Deosthali, Rege, and Arora, three researchers involved with the Center for Enquiry Into Health and Allied Themes in Mumbai, India, investigate sexual violence within marriage and who these survivors of domestic violence confide in. It’s not wholly related to TAE, but it does evidently discuss marital rape, something Monique had experienced. "Understanding How University Students Use Perceptions of Consent, Wantedness, and Pleasure in Labeling Rape". It is a National Institutes of Health article. Published online in 2020, it shows that there is a lack of understanding of consent and rape, and how there needs to be improvements in education to ensure people can more readily define rape and what it is. I believe that this article here is probably the best one to start with, and really highlights that consent is something that people seem to have a hard time concretely defining. "Emotional abuse in intimate relationships: The role of gender and age". It is a National Institutes of Health article. Alice, this article is for you. It talks about emotional abuse and what it is, you muppet. Next is the Victim Letter Impact Statement written by Chanel Miller and said aloud in court. It is 12 pages long and is a tough read. If you are sensitive toward rape details, I warn you now. You can find the full work on BuzzFeed, though I read it on DocumentCloud. An uploaded article to Psychiatric Times, "Rape-Related PTSD: Issues and Interventions", describes exactly what the title says. Lastly, I encourage people to check out what ‘rape myths’ are and to do a little digging for yourself. This list could go on forever, and I only chose to use a few sources that were different enough to give a bit of some breadth on this subject. If anyone wants to get access to locked articles in science journals or whatever, hit me up and I’ll see if I can help (can you DM people on novelupdates? Dunno). Knowledge is power, amigos. Why am I showing you these? Because the people who bitch and moan about the timelines do not care about the trauma that Monique suffered. They’re willing to say, ‘the author handled it well’, ‘Monique had lots of time’, ‘it doesn’t matter anymore because it’s a new world’, ‘she needs to get over it’, and ‘she has a support group, so everything’s a-okay’. No, nothing’s okay. Can you imagine how much of a mindfuck that is? To be seemingly the only person to remember what happened, to be the only person to still feel the fresh and vivid injustice inflicted upon you? And then, in the midst of it all, knowing that you cannot seek righteousness for yourself because it’s all been turned back? That is a horrible and incredibly isolating experience. There is an inherent lack of empathy toward Monique and the abuse she faced. The author needed to minimise and rationalise the violence against Monique to ensure that the main couple could be who they were, despite such being an insanely damaging thing to do. The timeline & the two Ruveliss’ argument is built on the idea that the timelines themselves are inherently important. Many people who argue against TAE do not care about the timelines. They are irrelevant to the fact that Monique had experienced, continuously, differing forms of abuse & neglect that do not just disappear because the world was given a clean slate. Moreover, the people who do support the idea of two Ruveliss’ also don’t seem to care a great deal about the mental trauma Monique suffers from. Ultimately, you either fall into the trap of trying to ‘logic’ your way around the timelines, which the defenders hungrily devour, or you say ‘no, the timelines do not matter’ to which you’ll be met with a ‘bUt ThEy dOoOoOOO’. Look: if you want to write a story wherein you focus on abuse, for the love of all that is unholy, do your research. I didn’t touch on the miscarriage issue and how that was portrayed, and I won’t because I don’t know enough yet. Lastly, some of y’all need to grow a heart.