LCD Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by Parth37955, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Paps

    Paps Well-Known Member

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    I am impressed by ll the tecnological discoverys this new method of contruction the eldwas had created, I can see why Rembrandt is all excited about it. Even the use of the materials hint at recycling of material.
     
  2. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    If there's one or two things I wish more countries like my own would emulate is Japan's values of cleanliness and recycling. Trash is sorted based on combustible and non-combustible. Recycling into cardboard boxes, paper, glassware, plastic, etc.

    Aznoval's attack was not a life-threatening move and the goal of the fight was to showcase their skills to Rose Garden, not to kill each other. Makoto was much more conscious of killing in that fight due to the three charmed girls he killed earlier in the arc. The only serious attack with Makoto's power was the last one that nearly killed Aznoval and took him decades to recover from. Makoto and co had tremendous leeway in that fight and were in control for the most part. Also, Rose Garden had zero leeway to do much in that fight since they were defeated by Tomoe, and the elder dwarfs, arkes, and etc. Mio was like always experimenting with her opponent (she's like a sponge for new techniques).

    It was similar to the one Makoto received in his first fight with Sophia. In all respects the best examples of Makoto willingly going for the kill were that hyuman adventurer and the gate god that mocked his family. Makoto's major flaw is his lack of knowledge about various evils, which are necessary for people of influence, rulers, and even gods. Rembrandt was asked to help him in that regard and Tsige's independence provided it. He is also well aware of the military prowess of Raidou and co from the Rotsgard arc and earlier.

    Makoto does have detecting abilities since he has found assassins targeting him in Lorel (recent example) and others in the past. He typically wraps sekai around himself and his surroundings to suppress any mana around him. He is a battle junkie and training maniac, so he typically waits for his opponent to do their all, then curse their hopes like how he trained the newly recruited Oni.

    The Goddess and her followers have almost zero knowledge for the baseline of Makoto's activities or their military power. The Apostles gave the impression that they were acting on their own. Various characters have remarked that BUG is being silent more than usual which I attribute to her choker/collar that Athena gave. The only person that knows that Makoto has a base in the wastelands is Hibiki who assumes that base is the Mist Town.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  3. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    That was the original plan, Rembrandt was going to dismantle the merchant's association, the Guild, and maneuver all the adventurers to bow down to his will...then he met Raidou. He flat out explained all this in a monologue to Morris, in a chapter where he explains how his plans have been updated every time he talks to Raidou.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  4. CockyBrat

    CockyBrat Well-Known Member

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    Being unconcious for some time and being dizzy after waking up so much that he couldn't take the negotiation with PRG becuase he was too weak is as serious as it can get. He was not in a situation where he could fight against a single apostle anymore. Don't talk the fight down. He lost a lost of blood and it doesn't really matter if he fought with 100%.
    It was the same after defending against Roots attack just that even Mio and Shiki were too weak after that. If the apostles drop an attack on Tsige the same thing would probably happen again. If the goddess descends after one of these situations then Kuzonoha would be doomed. In fact the only reason he is still alive is that the other gods hold the goddess back after he defended against root. The best thing he can do is to ask for peace since the goddess can attack him anytime and he can't reach her. As far as I know the goddess also has a friend that the the 3 gods didn't want to mess with. And he also doesn't get any benefit from fighting her as she doesn't mess with him since the agreement.

    He is oh so great at detecting that he needs Shiki to tell him if spies are around. He didn't detect the apple assassin as his sword was already on his neck. He had to speak to them for him to find out. He would be dead without noticing him.

    The goddess has zero knowledge on his military power? I think it's quite the opposite. She saw everything that happened in the devil town and the spirits told her about everything so she knows the biggest part of his power. What does he or we know about her? How strong is she, how many apostles does she have, how strong are they? And many people already suspect his connection with the Mist Town.
    Did he say that he wants to raise Makoto as Tsiges ruler or do you just suspect that? As far as I know he teaches Makoto how to be a Merchant and the basics of negotiations so he doesn't get toyed with by everyone but where does he say that Makoto should be the Governor of the city? It would also not be a good idea as Makoto is not really the one to take responsibility for anything. Rembrandt knows way more about the city and about politics. Rembrandts best case would be to have Kuzunoha stay as a Company as the city benefits more from the products than from Makotos brain.

    Edit: I could imagine that Makoto as the ruler of Tsige would make it a second Asora. Sending the citizens around the world to make charity. Letting them make proucts 16 hours a day to sell them for cheap and letting Rembrandt take all the administrative work. Everything for his merchant hobby.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  5. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    I didn't say anything about him wanting Makoto to rule, but his original plan would have made Rembrandt King of the Wasteland and Tsige. I think since Makoto got involved with Rembrandt, the plan has evolved to making it more of a democratic city-state, and he's grooming Raidou to be one of the powers behind it, maybe as an elected official, maybe just the force that keeps the senators honest.
     
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  6. CockyBrat

    CockyBrat Well-Known Member

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    That seems much more plausible.
    But I'm not so sure about the democratic part. Probably still some merchants who rule but with him having more authority than the others and Raidou being another member of his council as you mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  7. anteopta

    anteopta Well-Known Member

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  8. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    Makoto had leeway in that fight to go that extent. Tomoe, Mio, the Asora vanguard were there watching with Picnic Rose Garden. Aznoval said if he wanted an equal relationship, then Makoto would lose or get hit as a concession to their side. However, Aznoval surrendered and Makoto's aim changed slightly, so its closer to subordinate organization with Kuzunoha as the lead. Aznoval clearly said the fight was to vent since Picnic Rose Garden were unable to defeat a single member of Kuzunoha. The fight was supposed to showcase Makoto's ability to the rest of his group that if Kuzunoha choose to do so, they could have killed them.

    Furthermore, the location of the fight. It was near the dungeon core or the command center. That's a strong concession right there. Azunoval power was doubled from the dungeon buff and Makoto was debuffed by 30%. Makoto intentionally took the attack and almost fired his lethal killing shot at Aznoval before he surrendered.

    Makoto didn't faint, but he was beating himself internally for not choosing the best outcome of losing after taking a hit.

    Honestly, I am hating myself right now.

    I would normally be able to get back up decently, but I currently can’t.

    The negotiation has turned with Tomoe as the focus, and from the other side, there’s Vivi-san, Ageha-san, Nomad-san, who are advancing the matter, and it is practically already wrapped up.

    I used the medicine of Shiki that Tomoe, Mio, and Beren brought from Asora, and treated the wound on my face and was present in the negotiations only in form.

    Because I had lost quite a good amount of blood, Tomoe told me: ‘I will take the front and advance the negotiation’.

    Well, in the end, my role was practically coercion. Like the scary Gargoyle statues outside mansions.

    Now that I have acted in such a stupid manner, the most I can do is that much.

    …Hah…

    “Uh…Understood. Uhm, Waka-sama, is your wound really alright now?” (Mio)

    Wound.

    The wound on my head.

    At the end of the fight, the Iai that was the trump card of Aznoval-san had scraped my face.

    Right after…he stopped his sword in an unnatural posture, and then, closed his eyes and surrendered.

    If I had been the one saying those words, all of this would have ended harmoniously.

    When I heard that, I returned to my senses.

    Rather than calling it ‘returned’, it was more like, I remembered.

    The objective of why we came here.

    It was not to fight.

    My vision was completely red, and the inside of my head had gone completely pale.

    His sword had cut around the part slightly above my eyebrow, and with an unpleasant sensation as if it had touched my bone, it slid and passed by.

    The heat, that came right after, had cooled down the insides of my head instead.

    In other words, my vision was reddened because of the blood.

    It seems I was bleeding real hard.

    The head is an important part, so even with small things, it would bleed extravagantly, is something I think I heard somewhere, so I myself didn’t mind it much.

    But, right after 2 seconds of Aznoval-san’s words of surrender, everyone from the Kuzunoha Company here had surrounded me.

    It seems it was good that at least one layer of skin was still adhered to it.

    Even if it wasn’t on the level of instant death, it could still be categorized as a grave injury.

    And yet, what I was thinking at those last moments of the fight…was truly nothing good.

    “I can also understand that the reason you led us to this place was to show your will of an armistice. This place is a part of the labyrinth’s heart, isn’t it? If we were to rampage here, it would create fatal damage.” (Tomoe)

    “…As you have discerned. You guys accepted our condition for a 1 vs 1, so this much is a given. Honestly speaking, we are the ones at a disadvantage here anyways. Even now, I still find it hard to believe that you guys seriously pulled through settling this matter without killing anyone, but…well, I would be grateful if you were to take this as a show of good faith that I believe you are truly aiming to do that.” (Takane)

    https://isekailunatic.com/2017/09/27/chapter-281-a-fight-to-wrap-up-the-fight/

    Not a friend, rules and obligations as gods. The three war gods do not want to be anything like the irresponsible BUG because she interferes too much. Divine protections are a direct form of interference for example. The previous parallel worlds worlds ended with Makoto confronting BUG. Makoto personally does not want a "close fight" he wants to crush her easily.

    The demon king arc, right? Where Makoto created his silver gauntlets from nothing but his mana. Just because Shiki was now able to measure Makoto's mana after that does not mean his mana even at that point was lower than even Shiki or Mio.

    I agree with you that a full-on fight would be detrimental at the current stage. The alternative makoto 1-3 in the other worlds, had to pay a price for the confrontation at an early stage, however Makoto was still alive. As long as Makoto does not become openly hostile to hyumans, the collar will not break from BUG. Makoto verbally promised that (before the three war gods interfered) and it seems verbal promises hold meaning for gods.

    The Rokuya is an exception though, whom is considered the apex of his class. Makoto did lure and detected the charmed Picnic Rose Garden assassins aiming for him that had superior classes. Even if he had a sword to Makoto's neck, could he really kill him like that? If Rokuya did show real malice instead of testing him.

    The key point is that none of us know how high a position Makoto is looking at the world from. More so, the fact that he diligently does his archery practice and doubles his mana daily.

    Makoto is very insightful in fights. He knew Haruka had already awakened from her charmed state.
    He knew what Aznoval intended from this fight. He knew that Sophia was pitiful existence and Root was spying on her through her own eyes.

    My wounds don’t heal completely, and his wounds do.

    If I could cut off all his attacks with my Magic Armor, I would have been able to push this into a battle of attrition, but this opponent can easily destroy my Magic Armor with that weapon of his.

    I have now understood that this kind of opponents exist, so I should train my defensive power more.

    Right now, his anti-magic specialized equipment and abilities are making him the worst kind of opponent I can have.

    It is a pretty rare case, but I should come up with countermeasures so that it doesn’t turn into something as troublesome as now.

    I can eliminate the pain I feel by utilizing the anesthesia I used on Rokuya-san.

    ......

    “He injured Waka-sama….. I see, so these men that are supposedly the ancestors of the adventurers are all… seriously… ufufufu. I see, I see…” (Mio)

    “Calm down. In the first place, Waka was aware that he would be getting injured when he accepted. If he by some chance calls us, we will crush them without mercy, but if he hasn’t, keep your mouth zipped. This is a battle that Waka has acknowledged.” (Tomoe)

    The apostles are not all powerful. If they were then they would have finished the demon race long ago. The BUG knows that Makoto has high mana from the start and his actions as the Devil, but beyond that? His fairly recent beat-down with the gate god, Asora, Tamaki, etc? I doubt so.

    Even Root that has a wide network of adventurers lack that knowledge. Although, Root does know Makoto has a new contract with an unknown being on his adventurer card.

    Those are just rumors at this time made by the revolutionary side in Tsige and Dusk street. It's similar to how some radical groups claim credit for something they never did for publicity's sake and recruiting purposes.

    The Mist Town does not equal knowledge of Asora, its isolated from Asora since the hyuman adventurers incident. They could just as easily change its location to somewhere else like Kaleon.

    The details surrounding the BUG should come to light now with investigation of the Apostles. What they know:

    1. Makoto should know her name
    2. A goddess with creation abilities
    3. Possible moon goddess (Chapter 29)
    4. Created hyumans based off humans on Earth
    5. Strong enough to overpower Shiki in their first summoning to her domain
    6. BUG's temples of worship resemble Ancient Greek structures and Athenas
    7. Kingdoms are ruled by divine right (literally with Aion)
    8. The war gods implied that Makoto should have zero issues dealing with her if she wears her collar and he should practice his archery training just like before
    9. Has apostles
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  9. Naofumi

    Naofumi Well-Known Member

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    You guys know that the fight Makoto vs Aznoval wasn't fair starting with the buff and debuff and the cursed armor that the Eldwas made for him, the adventurer of origin for what I can see they went to the domain of that weird identity and those people have been fighting for a long time even Futsu is surprised when Aznoval summarize the fight as for Makoto he's still green but he's getting better and better and he'll never gonna go that place even that thing is sure of that also if you guys remember Tsukibro tell Makoto that he should roam free in that world.
    As for the big showdown, there's gonna be a big fight and the ones who'll start this will be the heroes Tomoki for well he's trash so there's no deep meaning and Hibiki for the human supremacy and the hated for the mazoku but who's gonna be in team goddess and who's gonna be in team Makoto is the important part of the fight.
    Also with Sakai Makoto can kill an immortal or not?
     
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  10. clmbheat

    clmbheat Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with most of what you said I dont think Makoto can kill an immortal with Sakai, sekai? The skill grants him a lot of flexibility but because he used most of the power Tsukuyomi-sama gave him into the creation of Asora, the skill itself cannot kill. It would definitely make it easier, specially against people like Aznoval and the rest. But not so with the Bug, look at his fight with Samal. Makoto could have killed it but not because or with the skill but through raw power.
     
  11. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    He wanted that door to suffer though, through all his attacks.
     
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  12. clmbheat

    clmbheat Well-Known Member

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    True but Sakai/Sekai doesn't inherently kill. It debuffs and buffs and gives Makoto extra sensory information if he makes it so but he cannot activate it and just use it to kill Aznoval with it. He would be able to figure out where the source of his immortality is and what it is and then through sheer power remove it and then kill him. Same with Samal, he didn't use the skill to break him or try to take away his power or anything right?
     
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  13. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    Sekai is limited by his imagination, just like his magic casting, there are things he will just not allow himself to accept as real concepts, like healing magic, or sure-kill weakspots, but if you make him angry enough...he wanted to make Aznoval suffer through decades of immobility, and was just about to do it. If you make him angry, such things become possible, but he also loses the rationality to choose the effective attack, going for the inflicting of pain, and retribution instead.

    It's just a matter of how he grows up, alternate Makotos used their sekai to create deserts, or microwave people, this Makoto knows he could do those things (returning medusa stoned things, to life is an example), but he chooses to not see them as options.

    Edit: you know it's not just limited to what you said, because Jin learned to manipulate gravity from watching Makoto's sakai.
     
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  14. secretish

    secretish Member

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    I don't think that ability of his specifically lets him kill an immortal. However, he could have pretty much turned Aznoval into paste for 50 years with his gauntlets, and Makoto or his attendants could almost certainly just kidnap him after and research some way to fully kill him before he regenerated. Hell, with how Tomoe killed that water supreme dragon by kind of turning it into an illusion or something, that may have already worked to kill the immortals. However, considering the groups weren't really that hostile towards each other and that they were trying to get the mercenaries' help, Makoto didn't want to kill the immortals. If any of Makoto's followers had died, though, Makoto probably would have gotten pissed enough to kill all the immortals.

    Edit:
    Was it confirmed he used sekai for that? I thought he just used all-out large scale magic for that, similar to how he made a lake by accident with a casual attack on Sofia. However, unlike with the lake, he probably wasn't restrained by the coat/rings, and was actively trying to create as much wide-scale destruction as possible, which he hasn't really done at any point in the main timeline yet. The closest he has done was destroying that fort in one shot, but even then, he was still trying to specifically limit the damage to the fort. I assume the making deserts is what happens when he doesn't limit it at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  15. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    I took it to be the opposite of the lake feat, he used his sekai to remove all the water from that city, or region, and turning the Demon Lord into a sand statue. It's what he was about to do to Tomoki, if that vision hadn't ended there.
     
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  16. Naofumi

    Naofumi Well-Known Member

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    To think that Sakai is still a fresh territory, but even now we don't know what exactly Sakai is, look Tsukibro is amazing even the gods know this their pov make clear this point but my question is if he can get information to kill Aznoval and co, Tomoe told Root that if he messes enough with Makoto then he's no more than a Lizard and in every bad end world he brings death, so that means that Root and merc group are dead on those worlds?
     
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  17. clmbheat

    clmbheat Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that he didn't use Sekai in the microwave incident or the Lorel is now a dessert. On the microwave makoto uses magic which Sekai isn't, and on the dessert he went into the wierd space where Hibiki gained her faith=power skill and just nuked the area. But i will agree that we don't really know what the limitations of the skill are right now since even the gods dont know what the heck it is and it hasn't been explored
     
  18. CountryMage

    CountryMage [XSanguine8] not my blood...

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    Sekai is his own world, he decides the rules. He can decide that anyone he focuses on will burn from the inside, and he can decide that all moisture will leave an object. I don't think he went into the space between dimensions, where Hibiki and Tomoki chose their extra powers though, the being there said that Makoto would never be able to go there, and it would be even harder to believe that Black knight-kun would have found his way there either. Makoto probably just made a non mist Asora, in that world, so that he could kill people without interruption.
     
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  19. secretish

    secretish Member

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    I don't think Makoto needs a skill from that mystery guy in the space to make deserts. Root's massive attack could probably have wiped out most of the demons if Makoto didn't stop it, and Makoto has a lot more magic power than Root. Makoto could probably do more damage if he just went all-out on trying to destroy a country, like he probably did in the alternate realities. A mere nuke wouldn't do nearly as much damage as he could if he got serious.
     
  20. clmbheat

    clmbheat Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Makoto didn't need it but he craved power:
    At that moment, I craved power for the first time. While you were pathetically lying down on the floor. The awakening that resulted from this, was neither a grateful thing nor a good timing at all. Because it was already all too late. Just like what you said, I am venting on you, and while at it, picking a fight on that trash Goddess. That’s the only thing I could think of.” (Makotwo)

    Makoto in the main timeliness doesn't go to that place to awaken power. Makoto is actively trying to get strong from the beginning.
     
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