What are the fundamentals of starting the universe+ that I'm missing?

Discussion in 'Author Discussions' started by Lazriser, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Depressed Member

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    I have nine heavens with each heaven a stage to the completion of the singular universe which becomes infinite and eventually eternal. These heavens are both cosmic entities that achieved nirvana and are also epochs of how the universes started. The nirvana heavens have no apparent personas except their very nonexistence (unconsciousness/unreality) are the fundamentals of the cosmos (named universes) in which they become the space for other cosmic entities with personas or sentience to temporary occupy and rule over.

    Here's the dilemma I'm in is that I don't know the exact metaphysics on how the universe started and if I'm missing any of creation systems used to create the nature of the universe.

    I plan to keep the 1, 2, 8, and 9 as it is, but as for the rest; do you all perhaps have an idea which system should I named them after or substitute to a better name?
    1. Prime (Origin/Primeval)
    2. Duality
    3. Unity
    4. Force
    5. Elemental
    6. Immortal
    7. Mercurial
    8. Infinite (Infinity)
    9. Eternal (Eternity)
    Identify them as equivalent to Demon Sultan in their state except their very nature is different from the Demon Sultan. They are the unreality for reality to exist and happen.

    Summary of all epochs nature that started the universe to universes.
    1. Prime Cosmos is the singularity and origin of all concepts of creation.
    2. Duality Cosmos is the concept that counters the original concepts, therefore creating all concepts of destruction, negation, stagnation.
    3. Unity Cosmos is the concept that unites all compatible concepts.
    4. Force Cosmos is the concept that predetermines the flow of all concepts.
    5. Elemental Cosmos is the concept that divides or multiplies all concepts to larger or smaller concepts exclusively.
    6. Immortal Cosmos is the concept that unites all contradicting concepts.
    7. Mercurial Cosmos is the concept that redefines the concept including the flow of all concepts.
    8. Infinite Cosmos is the concept that multiplies similar concepts inclusively.
    9. Eternal Cosmos is the concept that transforms all concepts exclusively.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  2. Kutaifa

    Kutaifa Pokémon trainer

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    A better question would be why?
    What does providing the various universes personas attribute positively to your story?
     
  3. grish99

    grish99 [Pelican Hater] [Hater of Face-Slapping]

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    Are you looking for real scienc world creation
    Or wuxia way of creation
    If first then what's you wrote is"wrong"
    If second then....if you write a story then nobody care...for real nobody will remember how you named things like this
    Edit:and you can easily change this mid story by telling ”you are wrong you idiot this is named like this" and focus better in things that you can use right at the start not hundrets chapters later.
    (If your focus isn't only this worlds)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  4. DiabolicGod

    DiabolicGod Well-known lazy Member

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    sounds good enough to me
    tbh, as long as the names are somewhat plausible and don't sound bad, you can fix everything else with small infodumps and descriptions
    only beware of possible plotholes that might result from this (but you can still fix them when you notice them early enough anyway)

    also, I would have thought you'd have something with the 'multi-' aspect as third. you know, like yin-yang --> 5 elements or something similar
    so I guess you could say I'd change it up to be 5. 4. 3. instead of 3. 4. 5.
     
  5. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Depressed Member

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    They don't have personas at all to keep things simple. I just need a method that encompasses all creation myths or at least the most ancient creation systems that started the universe and how the universe functions with sentience in it. I need them to serve as the foundation of how everything works in the universe.
    Not the real science but concepts such as duality, synchronicity, or the godhead sort that rules the nature of the universe. Maybe I got it all wrong, but I definitely know I'm missing something here to complete of what makes a universe the universe.
     
  6. DiabolicGod

    DiabolicGod Well-known lazy Member

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    what do you mean with immortal and mercurial then?
    the thing missing is either the reality aspect, which would let people break free from the reality or dimension of the universe, or the Life aspect, which would make the universe give birth to people
    perhaps you have already included that in your planning, but you're making it a bit hard for everyone by not adding the descriptions/explanations to the 9 heavens
    there are also several other aspects you could add, but less is more imho. So you should at most make a tripartite realm after the nine heavens where you add anything else you think is too overpowered for the 9 heavens or wouldn't fit in them
     
  7. oblueknighto

    oblueknighto Blue Person

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    You're creating an entire universe. You can add or remove whatever you want. It's your own imagination so there's no right or wrong. You aren't missing anything because there's no need to restrict yourself by following influences you've read or heard about before.
     
  8. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Depressed Member

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    My bad, I shall add descriptions for each (temp) epoch.
    Rather than restrict myself, I don't know where to start except for making already used ideas to their extremities. I'm not that particular in uniqueness, but I like to make it wholesome. No loose ends, so I want to it real as it can get even if the whole event itself is fictional.
     
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  9. bromnath

    bromnath Well-Known Member

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    I think your flow is incorrect, in addition to defining thing, you need some sort of story/order/hierarchy. The important thing is how do the different pieces relate/give rise to each other. Try something like:

    (1) At first there was chaos, primordial potential. Origin
    (2) From there arose (is) and (not) Duality
    (3)From (is) and (not) comes change. Force
    (4) From change comes difference, greater and lesser, Element
    (5) From difference, comes segragation, grouping, compatible, and incompatible Unity
    (6) From Segragation, comes reinvention, the breaking of borders, change II Mercurial
    (7) From reinvention, comes the reunification of incompatible, the return to chaos, the impossible becoming possible Immortal
    (8) From overcoming the impossible comes growth and endlessness Infinity
    (9) from endlessness comes omniscience Eternity
     
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  10. Ai chan

    Ai chan Queen of Yuri, Devourer of Traps, Thrusted Witch

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    When making a universe, you have to consider the following, in the given order:
    1) The logic of your world
    2) The physics of your world (some people on crack ignores this, so if you're on crack, ignore this)
    3) The landmass (and the climate) of your world, basically the world you're setting your story in, even if it's a space opera, there is still a landmass, the interior of the ship can be the landmass
    4) The people living in that world, how they interact and how they live
    5) The economy of the world, are they barter-based, uses currency or are everyone self sufficient in that all families are basically their own city?
    6) The elements that make up that world, I'm not saying the air, water, earth or fire, but the social constraints of the world, the culture, the governments and how these elements interact with each other and the other considerations
    7) What kind of emotions, feelings, or moral values do you want to instill as you tell the story (shianshia doesn't have moral values, so if you are writing shianshia, you can forgo moral values as they all have no morals, but wuxia does have moral values)

    Ai-chan needs to add something. Physics does not refer to law of electromagnetics or e=mc^2, not in this context. Physics refers to the constants of your world. Such as, in our world: "If you throw a ball into the air, it will always come down", "If you kill someone, they die", "If you eat all the food on the table, there will be no more food on the table". These constants are the physics of your world and should not be infringed upon.

    While you can have "if you kill someone, they die" as your physics, and then choose to revive someone from the dead anyway, you can only do it once or twice. Doing it often makes it not your world's physics, but instead a plot armour, a deus ex machina that the author uses at will. If you have made this your physics, then stick to it. Make one exception, at most two, but don't do it more than that, because then, people will see a dead person and thought, "Eh, he's gonna revive in the later chapters anyway. No use spilling tears over him."

    Let's look at Game of Thrones. There is one physics, one constant that everyone knows by now. And that is, "No life is sacred, everyone can die at any moment". And it works for the story, because after the first few shocks, people came to expect it and does not feel like the author was messing with them. So they continue to read, while readying their hearts to see one of their favourite characters die. This is the story's physics, and the author sticks to it no matter how the story goes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  11. Feng Tian

    Feng Tian Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that ignoring this is borderline impossible, even for the softest of power systems. A core point for these is always what they can't do. This also tends to snowball into the other areas. Ultimately it is paramount to avoid "nuke the fridge" moments.
     
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  12. Darius Drake

    Darius Drake A poster of verbose posts

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    I started trying to answer this one, but I ended up just basically trying to create two different systems using your vague outline as a base. Short version - first idea was lower numbers are newer universes, with 1 being fresh out of existing from Chaos/Nirvana/Nothingness, and are so new that they're inhospitable to life, and 9 being the starting point for pretty much most sentient life forms. Most life forms start in universes that have reached the Eternal Realm Level, and explore the other 8 in order to research the formation of universes. Second idea is basic Cultivation Novel World, where cultivator's start in Duality Worlds, they know about the Prime Worlds, but generally don't explore them due to Prime Worlds only having one type of energy to Duality World's two, and that one not necessarily fitting with what they know. higher Heavens have better energy, with Unity Cosmos allowing a Cultivator to develop a second form of energy up to the level of what they already have without it causing problems, while Force Cosmos allow the energy to be converted from one form into another, for example.

    And, yes, that IS the more simplified, less obnoxious "is what I'm saying in any way close to what you were thinking" response. I would have gone through and given explanations for EVERYTHING if I didn't stop myself.

    I've seen it done regularly enough, particularly with soft systems. The author tells you what can't be done, and then forgets and does it later with no explanation or reason why it can now be done. Occurs often enough with things like resurrection, or just powers that the author decided they wanted now.
     
  13. Xian Piete

    Xian Piete Well-Known Member

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    It's too much. What is your actual story? Is it a guy going weak to strong? Is it a revenge story? Is it a chasing immortality story? Is it a love story? You seem really excited about building all these scene layers for your story but will they make it better? Will anyone really care? It doesn't sound like it's your creation, rather it seems like you are taking bits from stories you have read and are putting them together into your story like legos for background color.
     
  14. Feng Tian

    Feng Tian Well-Known Member

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    And the result is trash. What is the point of nuking the fridge when it ends any tension in your story for good?
     
  15. Darius Drake

    Darius Drake A poster of verbose posts

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    Most of those stories were half-way to being complete trash before then, and adding in the previously stated as impossible as something someone can actually do didn't change anything, quality wise. In other words, there already was no tension, only spectacle, and the story's author added stuff to give more spectacle.
     
  16. Feng Tian

    Feng Tian Well-Known Member

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    So you think trash turning into even more vile trash is a viable argument? Wat?