Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Mightymaze, Mar 10, 2018.
My thoughts summed up lol
I wonder why people always talk about Western Dragons as an over-sized lizard with wings? Even when I try to imagine a generic dragon and pluck their wings and shrink them into palm-size I can't figure what kind lizard are supposed to look remotely like that?
In greek mythology dragons has been linked to asclepios and demeter and were their servants (her chariot was pulled by dragons), they were also faithfull guardians of the treasures of thoses gods (one guarding the golden apple of the garden of hesperides was killed by heracles and changed into a star by Hera who regretted causing its death by puting this thievery in the 12 labours).
In catholic religion dragons were associated with the snake of the eden garden and were responsible for natural catastrophes, plagues or pure evil ordered by satan himself, of course they were portraiting the whole seven deadly sins in their acts.
It was the norse mythology that associated them with greed and gold mountain, Fafnir is the most know of this kind of dragons (a dwarf changed into dragon by cursed gold), then this greedy dragon sleeping on a golden treasure was re-used everywhere (even in german opera) and Tolkien had written the hobbit sealing in stone this kind of dragon in the fantasy tropes.
east grants wishes. . . .
west have flaming tails and always being hit by a ball. . .
that what i was going to say. and eastern dragon have some deity power or god it self, western dragon mostly pictured as a smart and wise animal
Not trying to be racist, but
You are wrong.
Describing western Dragon as "dumb animals" is incredibly misleading. While there certainly are such examples, in most stories the dragons actual intelligence is left unmentioned, or is explicitly praised.
In most old stories, the reason for trying to slay a dragon is because of their tyranny, or for their treasure.
Typically, they show up at some village or city and demand human sacrifices in the form of maidens, as is the case with Saint George.
They are definitely more direct in their actions than eastern dragons, but calling them dumb animals is just ignorant. The slaying of a dragon is meant to be the greatest feat possible. How can they be lacking in any aspect when that is the case?
Come'on, western dragons have wings while eastern don't, which means they have higher magical power enough to fly!
Hmmm... some would argue that western dragons use magic to fly too because the wings they are depicted to have are said to be too small or not sturdy enough to accomodate flight
This was mentioned in Magus of genesis
plus some other novels... plainly theoretical but still XD
Western : either winged trex or a small winged Snake.
Eastern: small legged winged Snake
Since mayan/aztec dragons/gods/deites like kukulkan with its other names like feathered serpent etc.
And btw i think a Western dragon would win with the same size kinda/ ofc let the Eastern dragon be longer then ofc since it can breath fire and what i know is that even though they can controll the weather hot fire like 2000 degrees fire wil practically turn water useless.. and their beards!
Not exactly, the Welsh dragon is a symbol of power and authority and could be found on the national flag of Wales.
Or since they controll the weather they can make an updraft? Since they often move up and down this would make so much More sense!
Dragons as a whole are actually just the distillation of all things we might fear(Scales of a snake, claws of a tiger, wings/flying of a bird of prey(they hunt monkeys,) natural disasters, and everything beyond our knowledge.) The real difference between Eastern and Western dragons is the narrative purpose they have in the stories. In the west, a dragon can be thought of as "the monster to be slain" representing any seemingly overwhelming amount of adversity in the way of your goals, where as in the east, a dragon can be thought more of as a "Demon to be feared" representing overwhelming power to which you have no defense.
The thing about tradition is that there are always local exceptions. There are positive examples like in Wales, or the Dacian Draco, but the general portrayal is still a monster to be slain.
there are many differences;
Western dragons are winged lizards, extremely magic and physically resistant, capable of Breath attacks.
They are considered as "strongest beasts", but they rarely possess enough intellect.
Their attributes are a nearly inexaustible vitality and physical strength, usually fire aligned, sometimes Battle maniacs and Greedly.
Their attack both on close combat, with their immense strength, or flying if their opponents have numbers or if the enemy can best them on Close. While flying their pattern consist in showering the enemies with their breaths, before diving to come close for a rapid attack.
Eastern dragons have a wider category.
Generally they are similar to snakes, but having at last two <legs>, some have also wings, but they must NOT be confused with Wyverns.
They possess nearly infinite magical abilities, and differently to their western counterparts they are not to engage.
Usually they are aligned to water or wind, and are extremely intelligent.
Eastern dragons outnumber the westerns, and have a specific hierarchy.
Some possess divinity.
Their attacks are magic-based, and can bend the environment to their advantage and use
Even if you say that... There are enough positive examples that you shouldn't paint them with such a wide brush. Especially since Christianity came along and decided to turn all local gods into saints or demons. "Dragon" is such a wide term in the West that it includes animal-like creatures, humanoids (apparently Heracles mated with a dragon at one point in his journey), monsters, divine guardian beasts, natural disasters, and gods with overwhelming power that can't be killed even if they're defeated.
So it's a little bit disingenuous to dismiss anything that doesn't fit into your viewpoint as "an exception".
I doubt that, who would use "a monster to be slain" to symbolize one's country/ kingdom?
It looks like arguing but you guys are stating 85% same stuff with a few commenters bringing in new info yet to appear in this thread.
So here is a little tidbit for both. With the exception of ones like Tiamat western dragons are presented as killable even if that is super fucking hard. As such it is done by either god(s) or heroes who have to find a way around the dragon's abilities to attack their weak spot.
In other words a common performance made out to be special in whatever way the writer can think of.
East type dragons however have a different problem. Their origin. East faith is more in nature and as such even if they state something to be shen or kami or whatever it actually referres to a spirit of nature(whatever the form it takes) with a duty to perform.
Essentially in eastern myths if you throw a rock you can offend 100 or so "deities" if not the rock itself having a deity inhabit it. Being so common their value is far lower since a head honcho( whoever it is in a particular belief system) can turn them into a mere human,beast,insect or even plant with a thought.
In their stories it is common either for the dragon to be struck down for not performing their duties or for showing off how a being doted on by the world(a reincarnated deity or a great monk or someone third) can snatch something the dragon has and get away with it no problem.
Both having their pros and cons they come up equal in the end since you can't measure a completely made up creature's ability to fight, or it's "power level" .
Personally western dragons are cooler since they have many individual characteristics without a need to to label them divine, but that is just an opinion.
This was actually kind of informative, and I liked it. I got to know a chunk more about flying lizards and flying snakes than in the past. Still like wyverns over dragons though.
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