Question What "started" the reincarnated as villainess genre?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Clerudx, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Clerudx

    Clerudx Active Member

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    So today i decided to take a trip through memory lane and visited one of my most loved series that is sadly on an indefinite hiatus, kenkyo kenjitsu. I loved everything about it and wondered if "mushoku tensei" as people say, is what jumpstarted the isekai genre, what about the villainess genre? Because i generally feel that most villainess novels nowadays lack a certain oomph compared to kenkyo kenjitsu.
     
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  2. Amaruna Myu

    Amaruna Myu ugly squid dokja (●´∀`●)

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    I remember reading reika-sama, but the first villainess novel I've read should be burikko villainess
    oh shite that means I've been reading since primary school ahahahaha
     
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  3. HentMas

    HentMas Well-Known Member

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    The "Otome" games...
    I know I know, kinda lame to put it that way but there is nothing deeper...

    Imagine yourself a tween otaku girl that loves "Otome" games, but as you play more and more you want to get into the story, so you write fan-fic about it, inserting yourself as a Mary Sue.

    This is what sparked the interest on the genre and like any other literary media the spin offs began to come trough.

    As you write more and play more you realize you kind of don't hate the "villain" girl... you start to notice that all this characters are just an excuse for conflict and according to the level of "ability" on the writer of the "Otome" game, the Villainess actually comes off as someone that shouldn't be a villain at all.

    Then you decide to write a fan-fic of it, focusing on the villain and post it online.

    Again, the "Mary Sue" character comes in to become "the only friend of the villainess".

    All this, for free, in sites dedicated to "Fan Fiction" without remuneration.

    Then you grow up, finished your studies, started to work... but you kind of liked the fan base you got because of your little stories on the fan fic site, so decide to write a full on story, copying the setting, but filled with "what ifs" that you've touched before, a bit more polished (sometimes) a bit more interesting, the "ISEKAI" trope has being in full swing on your culture for over 20 years now, and you decide to do it but in a game.

    What you have to understand first, is that most of this stories started as a "Fan project" of someone that was doing it alone, in Asian countries, reading online and having a blog was much more prominent than in other countries, I still remember that "user.net" forums and places like that were filled first and mostly by Asian people, western countries didn't have that kind of culture, remember, Japan was the first to implement "social media" before most other countries in the form of "phone blogs" they were the first country to implement nation wide connectivity in their private web for their national cell phone companies.

    The "serialization" of a "blog post" is much more prominent in those places... and it can kill or make a new writer.

    So "what sparked the Villainess genre?" the "Otome fan fics" of the late 80's early 90's

    We're just getting the "tail end" of all that wonderful amount of content because the connectivity has increased exponentially in the last 20 years... I still remember getting into an obscure "Yahoo" forum to help with the Spanish translation of "True Love" (an H game)

    So the "villainess" genre is the logical extrapolation of a bunch of fan-fics written by those tweens but already grown up, there is no "single work" that sparked the genre because it's a spin off of a very concrete genre that haves no actual beginning, fan fics have existed for as long as people have being writing.
     
  4. lnv

    lnv ✪ Well-Known Hypocrite

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    If I were to say what started the modern Isekai genre, that would probably be Sword Art Online. It then branched into reincarnation into another world and other stuck in a game world. Then it combined to reincarnated into game type worlds or into games. Which of course in time would lead to reincarnated into an otome game.

    Though interestingly enough, the villainess genre seems to be now more popular in korea than in Japan. And they seem to explore the genre far better and far more. Though they usually don't use games, but novels.
     
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  5. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    Kenkyo Kenjitsu may not be the first Villainess novel, but it's certainly the book that popularized the subgenre. It sat on the Syosetu top 10 list for the longest time, and people are still clamoring for it to be continued even though it hasn't been updated for four years and it never had any adaptation to manga or anime.

    The problem with this theory is that Kenkyo isn't based on Otome games; it's based on old school shoujo and the latter is a much better fit for this subgenre. Moreover the most popular Villainess books tend to be dumbasses rather than Mary Sue type figures.
     
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  6. Clerudx

    Clerudx Active Member

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    Thanks for the lengthy and insightful response! This does seem a likely start for this genre but like what ToastedRossi said, Kenkyo kenjitsu kind of diverged from that particular type of genre. And i guess i was also a bit unclear with the title, my apologies. What I was really curious about is what popularized it. I do appreciate the reply though!

    Honestly, this is the entire reason for this. I just recently got back to reading again and wanted to continue reading kenkyo kenjitsu as at the time it was still ongoing, but was saddened upon knowing that not only Estellion, the TLer has disappeared, the novel is also on an indefinite hiatus. And, I'm glad we agree that Reika-sama was a huge cornerstone in popularizing the genre. The series holds a special place in my heart and I'd like if everyone gives it much more love.

    PS. this is my first time creating/replying to a thread so apologies for improper syntax.
     
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  7. Bella94

    Bella94 Well-Known Member

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    Totally feel you.. I really like Reika-sama character.. She's not Mary Sue and she work hard in everything.. She's just a normal girl with a rich parents.. Tbh I kinda ship her with Enjou tbh.. Sad that the author still didn't say whom she will end up with.. The novel is also in indefinite hiatus.. I mean there is a lot of people who try to copy this story but I have not found one that really stand out to me like Kenkyo did ‍‍
     
  8. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that Reika is a normal girl at all. Reika is far more popular, influential, hard working, and talented than a normal girl would be. In fact, the amount of work that she puts into "being normal" only makes her stand out ever more. The other noteworthy point is that Reika is hopelessly bad at reading herself - she just doesn't get how other people perceive her and it's delicious!

    But yeah, the part about the copycats missing the point rings very true. It's as if these other writers have no idea why Kenkyo is good. Most of them even remove the social elements from the story! It's shocking just how far they are from the mark. I'm not against writers copying from one another in general, but I'd love to see it done properly in this case.
     
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  9. Bella94

    Bella94 Well-Known Member

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    This is so true tbh.. It just that Kenkyo set the standard so high that others trying to copycat the story feels like very pale in comparison with Kenkyo.. Kenkyo is really a gem that unfortunately maybe the author already give up in this story as it's been a long time the author write a new chapter
     
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  10. Nancy Drew

    Nancy Drew Well-Known Member

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    "Mushoku tensei" did not start the isekai genre.

    Here are some random isekai books. Look at release dates.
    1. a novel "Quag Keep" (isekai into the board game "Dungeons & Dragons", a print edition, United States, 1979) by the author Andre Norton;
    2. a novel "Daughter of the Spirit King" (a print edition, 2003) by the author Park Shin-Ae;
    3. a novel "Spirit King Elqueeness" (a print edition, 2004) by the author Lee Hwan;
    4. a novel "The owner of the phantom beast" (환수의 주인, a print edition, 2010) by the author Bak Taeseon;
    5. a novel "Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation" (a web novel, 2012) by the author Rifujin na Magonote.
    *********

    VRMMORPG:
    1. a manhwa "iD_ᴇNTITY" ("Yureka", VRMMORPG, a print edition, South Korea, 2000) created by Son Heejoon in collaboration with Kim Younkyung;
    2. an anime ".hack//Sign" (VRMMORPG, Japan, 2002);
    3. a novel "Sword Art Online" (VRMMORPG, a web novel, Japan, 2002) written by Reki Kawahara and illustrated by abec;
    4. a novel "1/2 Prince" ("Half Prince", VRMMORPG, a print edition, Taiwan, 2004);
    5. a novel "Game Master Mion" ("GM미온", VRMMORPG, a print edition, South Korea, 2006; no english translation) by the author Bak Taeseon;
    6. a novel "Legendary Moonlight Sculptor" (VRMMORPG, a web novel, South Korea, 2007) by the author Nam Heesung.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  11. FIEND

    FIEND i eat crayons

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    3deep
    Japan always ahead of the game
     
  12. shadow83

    shadow83 Icarus

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    Half Prince was really something unique , something unexpected in this genre . sword art online was also good actually i watched the anime first but still it left me a strong impression
     
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  13. chocolatechipcookie

    chocolatechipcookie Well-Known Member

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    Tbh Reika is pretty much the epitome of a normal girl in every girl.
    She's popular because of her default setting, "empress aura"
    She's just really trying to get by. Explore her interests and try her best, tbh none of her actions are really "strange" it's just because of her rococo old japanese doll appearance and it's genuinely hilarious. I love Reika, some relatable stuff here and there but her sincerity to get by is really moving for me. The author did a great job, I hope the author will come back soon healthy and well
     
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  14. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    Reika sees herself as a normal girl, and given her previous personality, that would be correct. However, one of the main points of the story is that Reika is terrible at evaluating herself. And so the way she sees herself is utterly different than the way other people see her, and more importantly, the way she affects them. Another way to examine this is to look at how some of the characters who know more about the inner Reika think about her: they find that she's a lot more relatable than she would appear on the outside, but how many of them ever think that she's normal?
     
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