Why are my reviews being stealth hidden?

Discussion in 'Novel Updates Site Discussion' started by tamix, Jul 13, 2021.

  1. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I understand you may want to do that, but NU reviews are not the place for that kind of feedback. You might want to contact the translator directly and tell them that you disagree with their interpretation of certain parts of the raws.

    To quote the guidelines:
     
  2. tamix

    tamix Active Member

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    I understand that, as I said I was not aware of this guideline. I disagree with its validity, and although I at least wanted to explain why I disagree, I'm not here to fight it.
    However it is undeniably wrong that the site hides from users the fact that their review was not approved or that there even is an approval process at all. This is a separate issue that should be addressed.
     
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  3. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Don't you get a pop up saying something about your review is under approval process or something when you make the review?
     
  4. tamix

    tamix Active Member

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    I just verified, there isn't anything like that. No notice of any kind, the review is displayed exactly like the others right away (+edit button), both on the novel page and my reviews page http://puu.sh/HWcLH/3ed5e9ed4b.png
    If I log out though, poof, all gone.
     
  5. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    Yeah, there's no system at all to tell you the status of your review. The only way to know is to view your reviews while logged out. If you can't see them, they're either still awaiting approval (like that one), or have been rejected (like some of your older reviews).

    As I said earlier, it's a very old and janky system.
     
  6. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    The reviews were... reviewed.. and the rejections stand. The reviews contained statements about the translations, as opposed to just the novels themselves, and couldn't be accepted. The issue of not having a proper notification system in place for review approval and rejection was brought up again, but at the moment there's simply no time to create one. It's backlogged.
     
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  7. tamix

    tamix Active Member

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    I see you've taken the time to also remove half the reviews I had left too. But whatever, I know it's all fair to the guidelines, and I'll edit them if I care about it. (Would I need to also report them after editting? Given that people aren't made aware that reviews are rejected, I doubt there's much precedent or any system in place for this)

    I still need to warn you that this shouldn't be on your backlog, though. Just imagine if, right now, for every review that isn't public, a notification is sent to its writer informing them that the review was never actually shown to anyone. My guess is it would turn into a pretty big deal. In fact, now that I put it this way, since this is pretty much what would happen if the system was changed, that's sounding more like the reason the issue is being put off than lack of time. Anyway, I'm personally done complaining about this, if it was just me overreacting then so be it.

    Oh, but one last thing I wanted to add, about translation review. Someone said "the site is called novelupdates, not translatorupdates", but what are the "updates" of? Your reading list doesn't inform you about new chapters in the original language, those are barely even updated. The site's main purpose is undeniably for people to find translations of asian novels, so I find it very puzzling that informing people on the quality of the translation is against the guidelines. I know, I know, I said I wasn't trying to fight it, but still, I felt this needed to be said.
     
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  8. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    If you edit reviews with the intention of having them approved, I believe you'll need to report them, yes.

    Novel pages on the site are for novels. A given novel page does not belong to a specific group or translator, and many novels have had multiple translators over time. Reviews on those pages are for the novels. It's inevitable that some mentions of translation would slip through from time to time, but at the end of the day the intention is for reviews to be for the novels themselves, much like everything else on the page.

    I understand that it's far from ideal that no notice is given when a review is rejected for failing to meet that requirement, and it absolutely is something that can and should be improved. But Novel Updates is far from the only site that manages reviews in a similar manner. It's.. actually pretty common. I suppose one main difference is that most sites would simply delete the reviews without notice, rather than leaving them as personal records. That's perhaps why it isn't the largest priority on a list of things that need attention.
     
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  9. tamix

    tamix Active Member

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    I believe deleting the review is a fair bit better. Losing the text is a big negative, but I think the main issue is people not being aware of the moderation process at all. Here's a real easy thing you can do that wouldn't even have a backlash; add a line that says something like "reviews will be checked by a moderator before being made public" well visible near or in the review writing form. This is very standard, and as a bonus will make more people actually read the guidelines.
    EDIT: To be clear, adding that would help a lot, but obviously it's not a complete solution.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
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  10. Hell_ping

    Hell_ping Well-Known Member

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    I'll like to bump this thread to ask about why my review isn't showing.

    https://www.novelupdates.com/series/my-stepsister-is-my-ex/#comment-238194

    I know it's petty coming from me, but I just posted this review in response to user Firehearty who couldn't get people to agree when the user posted on reddit and came here, created an account, just to add an opinionated review hoping that nobody will disagree because the user wants the main ship to launch.

    Only writing this review because user Firehearty is pathetic enough to post on reddit,

    https://removeddit.com/r/MamahahaTs..._kinda_gets_repetitive_after_countryside_arc/

    get refuted by me, doubled down by deleting the original thread, deleted the account (user: magnetic_field_) and came here just to post a review because there isn't enough romantic progress.

    As I had noted:

    By this statement, you're also saying that the first three volumes are repetitive. You should know by now that the first few chapters of each volume, even in volume 4, are always some form of hijinxs involving our bakasiblings.

    Obviously Yume would be scheming another s*upid plan in every volume since volume 4 because she realized her feelings but is too tsundere about it (and so is everyone sans Isana)

    The latter half of volume 5 looks into Isana's psyche, how she feels like a weirdo because everyone calls her weird, and her angst of not having her own identity.

    The latter half of volume 6 looks into Mizuto's psyche, how he feels so alien from everyone because he has social anxiety and doesn't want to stand out. This results in a clash against Yume because Yume wants to accomplish something, Mizuto doesn't want to follow her there, and has the assumption that only two people with similar goals are compatible for each other, which is why he tried to stay away from Yume and the committee even though Yume wants him to get involved. As the author noted in the afterword, it's about getting Mizuto to understand who he really is and accept that he is different from Yume without letting it interfere in their relationship.

    Volume 7, as stated by the author's afterword, is meant to showcase a change of Yume's environment and a relatively lighthearted one. Through it all though, the most important part comes at the end of the volume.

    In fact, I would disagree and say there is better character development in the latter three volumes than the first three volumes. Perhaps it would be boring if Firehearty in particular is only looking for romantic progression and ignore every single character development in the story?

    Do we also ignore how the main five evolve as people, instead of just reading the story for the sake of the faux-domekano plotline and hoping for a resolution without looking into the whats and the whys as to why the characters are as they are, and instead only nitpick because the romance isn't progressing as fast as they would like?

    Do we also ignore how the main five look into their past and actually reflect on their actions, something that is blatantly missing in most other light novels out there, and also come to a positive conclusion on what they should improve on, even if the effort is for naught, and instead only nitpick because the romance isn't progressing as fast as they would like?

    Bottom line, if you're just looking for a romantic resolution in this story, this story isn't for you because it looks into way more things than that, and most readers can't have that. This isn't like Otonari no Tenshi-sama when it gets sweet and then nothing else later on in the story.

    So I want to know as to why this opinionated review gets passed while mine doesn't.

    Gets repetitive after the female MC realises she likes the MC (who are step-siblings) :
      • Female lead: I must seduce MC and make him only think about me.
      • Then she asks her friends some dumb plans to seduce MC (like walking naked after bath).
      • Her plans fail because MC has poker face after seeing her naked.
      • Then Female lead complains her friend how their dumb plan failed.
      • MC spends 90% of time with another girl who is his best friend, they get along so well that they'd make perfect couple.
      • MC and his girl best friend having 10x times more plot development than main couple, but We all know she's just a plot device, MC is gonna still fall for his step-sister at the end anyway.
      • Then some school stuff happens, MC and his girl best friend spend more and more time together (90% of the time).
      • Female MC gets jealous, asks her friend for another dumb plan to seduce MC. Which fails.
      • At the last chapter of each volume - Female MC becomes damsel in distress (MENTAL SITUATION), MC and Female lead have some intimate conversation,
      • Now you you expect them to progress with their relationship but nope, In the next volume the female lead again comes up another dumb plan to seduce him.
     
  11. runsing

    runsing status : bleeding, health -10/s Novel Updates Staff

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    how long ago have you made this review?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
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  12. Calahan

    Calahan Well-Known Member

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    Hell_ping - Have you read the Review Guidelines? As to me they make it clear as to why your review was rejected.
    https://www.novelupdates.com/review-guidelines

    "Reviews should NOT contain:
    • replies to other reviews. This means mentioning another user and replying to a specific review."
    You mentioned another user by name in your review, and your review is a direct reply to the named user's review. Not sure how the Review Guidelines could be any clearer about not doing that when writing a review.

    Your review also included a link.

    "Please refrain from:
    • including links."
    Again, the Review Guidelines are clear in regards to wanting users to refrain from including links in their reviews.
     
  13. Hell_ping

    Hell_ping Well-Known Member

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    Admittedly only 4 hours ago, though I don't remember there being a waiting process

    So I just need to amend the text and not refer to the person directly? Noted.

    I'm just miffed as to how the guy couldn't stand a disagreement and came all the way here just to add a review that couldn't be responded against, nothing personal to you two.
     
  14. runsing

    runsing status : bleeding, health -10/s Novel Updates Staff

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    waaaaay too early. the only times anyone got it approved early is if they somehow happened to post during the time tony's online (and coincidentally checking the reviews). otherwise 1-2 day is normal. longer than that, then very likely it was already rejected.
     
  15. Hell_ping

    Hell_ping Well-Known Member

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    Wait does Tony actually check every single review?

    Perhaps it would be boring if readers are only looking for romantic progression and ignore every single character development in the story, like some others would have intimated here?

    Do we also ignore how the main five evolve as people, instead of just reading the story for the sake of the faux-domekano plotline and hoping for a resolution without looking into the whats and the whys as to why the characters are as they are, and instead only nitpick because the romance isn't progressing as fast as they would like?

    Do we also ignore how the main five look into their past and actually reflect on their actions, something that is blatantly missing in most other light novels out there, and also come to a positive conclusion on what they should improve on, even if the effort is for naught, and instead only nitpick because the romance isn't progressing as fast as they would like?

    Do we also only look at the superficial of the actions and complain that there isn't any progression because the only thing people look at nowadays are just romance = progression?

    Because 'My stepsister is my-ex' isn't this kind of story.

    Alright, admittedly, this series was initially meant to be a love-hate relationship because the stepsiblings who were once a couple had to get used to living together. There are some romcom hijinxs here and there, but as you read further, you'll see more depth into each other's character, sometimes boring, sometimes scary, sometimes hilarious, but that's part and parcel of being human.

    We have extroverts like Kogure, introverts trying to be extrovert (changing oneself) like Yume, introverts who'd rather remain the same like Mizuto. Not everything is about romance in this story, for they need to understand each other to get along better as ex-couples, and also as friends/siblings.

    Bottom line, if you're just looking for a romantic resolution in this story, this story isn't for you because it looks into way more things than that, and most readers can't have that. This isn't like Otonari no Tenshi-sama when it gets sweet and then nothing else later on in the story.

    Hopefully this updated one will get passed.
     
  16. Sgt Clonehunter

    Sgt Clonehunter Well-Known Member

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    90% sure he does...
     
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  17. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    @Westeller you wanna explain more about this?

    I'm not that knowledgeable on this part of NU but Tony handles all review approvals, whether it's new submissions or pending edits approval. Does he check them? Probably yes, probably not. Imagine having hundreds to check and let's say less than an hour before you have to return to your work. Things tend to get overlooked and passed or rejected.
     
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  18. Hell_ping

    Hell_ping Well-Known Member

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    I understand that Tony is very busy with RL. I'm just surprised he actually checks all the reviews himself.
     
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  19. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    :blob_zipper_mouth: my lips are sealed.
     
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  20. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    I'm not sure what more there is to explain. Yes, Tony personally checks all reviews.

    Novel Updates was a passion project for him, for his own reading, and he had no idea when he first started working on the site that it would grow to be as large as it did, or survive as long. The site simply wasn't designed to be so large from the beginning, or to be managed by a team of staff as opposed to just him, and quirks of that remain to this day. One of those quirks is that only he can handle review approval, and he's never felt the need to change that. He likes approving them.

    And you're correct in that he mostly just skims them. ... Which is fine, because he isn't checking for the actual content, per se. Novel Updates does not have opinions regarding novels or groups, and does not trim reviews in their favor - or against them. He skims to see if any pending reviews are simply spam or blatantly fail to meet the guidelines (meaning aren't really about the novel at all), and approves anything he doesn't see an issue with.