Question Why do people like evil/ruthless/a hole protagonists?

So many experts here who are empty vessels lol.

Reminds me of the English Amateur author on Webnovel.com who doesn't know the difference between wuxia and xianxia and was bragging how his story is not wish fulfilment harem like other "wuxia".

I had a good laugh

 

Of course I don't expect them to be the same as me I wouldn't go around murdering people for my benefit even if there were no rules against it, dunno maybe I'm the wierd one here... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You are the one who seems to not get what I'm trying to say. Emphasizing the journey is precisely the problem, because the moment you reach the goal, now what? The journey ended, you enjoyed it (?), you got what you wanted, now what?

The example you mentioned; the dude is searching for eternal life, ok, the important part is the path to get it, let's say he gets it, now what? All that he lived for, the grand purpose of his journey, whats left now? All fucking eternity to live now, and what does he have to look for? Is he suddenly gonna wanna see people after all he has done? Is he gonna go into some temple and meditate for five thousand years?

I'm not trying to force nothing, every journey has an ending, What I'm asking you is what comes after? What comes after the end of the novel where he got the eternal life at last? I asked you quite some times now, but I still don't see an answer. Or did you really not think about this?

I was answering point by point like you did, as there were some thing that you miss understood or when over your head from what I said, but in the middle I noticed that, either you are completely messed up, or we are talking about completely different things. So lets get this clear;

You are aware of what "being an asshole", in the context of this thread is, right? Because the main theme of the thread is debating Evil/Ruthless characters.
When an Evil MC is being an asshole, he is not cutting in the line when at a shop, not not giving an elder lady a sit in the bus or not calling someone a retarded piece of shit. He is killing someone innocent out of interest, he is breaking a guards' limbs because he asked him for documentation when he was in a bad mood, he is seeing a caravan he can easily save being attacked and letting them die so he can trail the thiefs to their base and steal the items they have storaged, or he is letting someone die that he could save if he just stopped there 5 minutes because he is too cool for it.

That is what this type of MCs do, so when you extrapolate it to the real world, the weight has to remain the same.
When you come speaking about how being an asshole is good, I expect you to be speaking in the context of this thread, and referring to things if equal severity.

So, going full circle, are we speaking about the same thing or was this all a waste of time? (Although it is either way because if we are speaking of the same I stand my ground that you are a piece of shit).

Emotional? Well yea I am, and I think it's preferable being emotional about something like this that not giving a fuck to be honest.
And no, I don't feel good calling someone retarded, believe me I'd prefer it a thousand times not having to be explaining someone that doing bad shit is bad.

 

Normally I have a lot of empathy for relatively new readers who have a wrong impression of how writing works. The main exception to this are the impressions which are born of wilful ignorance like those people who complain about wuxia even though they've obviously never read it before. What's happening in this thread isn't quite wilful ignorance, but the number of logic leaps that need to be made to conclude that only evil characters are intelligent is astounding. And even the basis of that is the idea that there's anything wrong with characters doing stupid things to begin with; which of course isn't true as long as the narrative understands what's going on.

 

Just like people complained years ago about Hollywood dumbing down the audiences.
These books are dumbing down the readers.
The lack of consequences for protagonists has given readers the mistaken belief that the stories are actually rational.

This is why I enjoy Reverend Insanity so much, the protagonist who was killing his enemies discovered that when he got an even stronger enemy that he needed those he killed as allies.
The protagonist who started the story as a lone wolf, learnt how pointless fighting alone is

 

On the one hand the fact that the books you're talking about are written strongly enough that they're able to convince readers speaks well of them. On the other hand, books like "Atlas Shrugged" have also managed to do this even though the writing is terrible. I don't really mind the fact that they exist, but they really should be read with a critical eye and I suspect that this doesn't happen.

Hey there, quit trying to get me to read "Reverend Insanity". Don't wanna.

 

Haha I am not trying to get you to read it.
It is just the only novel on here that is not 100% wish fulfilment that I can stomach.

I could not even stand the popular Lord of Mysteries for one simple reason:

I don't believe in fate.
Story that worship fate piss me off.

The World's Best Martial Artist is another I read but I skip all the fights.
I am more interested in the business management

 

Absolutely not, you can't use the value of our world for that. In medieval times people used to watch gladiator die for entertainment and it was completely fine, today something like that would be the far last thing to be accepted. Those worlds are completely different, judging them with out own morals and ethics from our world would be something completely stupid to do.

 

Doesn't believe in fate
*Read RI*


/\
|
it's a joke

Spoiler

The fate part of RI is not exactly as the fate/luck shown in other novel. Probably the only book where fate actually make sense.

Spoiler

I fucking loved the war scene when fate was destroyed, the only novel that made me read MTL

 

I like characters like fang yuan because they aren't goddamn horndogs. When I read 'evil' mc I want an MC that treats everyone equally. I'm sick and tired of JP and CN always having the disgusting trope of 'saving the damsel in distress'. Legit soo horrible.

 

See my issue is that my gut feeling on the book isn't very positive so I'd go in looking to be extra critical and that's never a good way to go about reading a book. I've also read the author's foreword, and it's not very encouraging.

The problem is that regardless of what the setting is, the book is written by and for people with modern morals. So even if the book is manipulative and tries to justify horrible things like pedophilia, that doesn't mean the reader has to buy. I've seen this a lot and it's not hard for a critical eye to recognize just how problematic manipulative writing is.

 

I don't disagree with you. I dropped the novel the first time and spoke to the translator. It took some convincing before I continued after almost 6 months.
It was explained better.
This was a third chance. He was reliving his second life. He was a goody two shoes the first time.
It seemed unnecessary cruel to me until many things were revealed.
The one thing that kept me from dropping it was that the protagonist made mistakes and many of his plans failed.

 

Guess not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Now, on your garbage take n°3; Of course I can, it baffles me having to explain this shit; doing bad thing is bad, doesn't matter if it's now, if it's 3000 years ago, or if it's a fantasy world, the moment we are judging sentient beings, that don't move by instinct but by reason and therefore are capable of the simple and basic though such as "Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you" I can judge them on their actions, are there rules to limit them or not.

That retarded argument we could extrapolate to everything, why seek to stop animal cruelty in Spain? It's their tradition and not bad for them, why judge then right? Why stop the muslims from cutting the young woman clitoris so they can't feel pleasure? It's their tradition as well.

The moment you have the rational capability to choose, your action is up for judgement. Using the excuse that it's another time is utterly ridiculous. If you can't judge anyone who has a different set of morals than you, that means that you can only judge yourself and no one else.

To make things worse, most of this evil/ruthless stories are from transmigrators from our current time, so not only are they are doing the wrong thing in the context of whatever realm they are, they deliberately choose, instead of trying to make that realm a better place by transferring and implementing our moral, much more developed and fair, to throw their morals away and become pieces of shit.

So, tldr; Hell yea I'm gonna judge them like the scum they are.

 

You might have missed the whole point of the novel.
A more accurate title would be Fight Against Fate

You seem to be mistaking Fate and Luck.
Being lucky to become a Venerable
Does not mean the same as
Being Fated To Become A Venerable

 

I agree on that novel with that MC.


A little Spoiler:

What I do not agree in the late chapters where he changes his fighting with his Gu fist or smth and i guess it became repetitive in my opinion. I dropped the novel in 2019 so i forgot about many things from the novel, anyways if someone is interested in it it's called
Reverend Insanity.

 

You can accuse the novel of being many things but it it certainly not repetitive which is pretty great achievement given that Fang Yuan goes back in time.
You probably missed something in the plot

 

That's true on the plots, those were unexpected, I guess just the fights at the (nameless forgotten) arenas and before the three emperors.

 

What three Emperors? You mean the Three Kings Blessed Land?
That is under 300 chapters.
The story hasn't even started then haha
Do yourself a favor, read the manga, it is faster.
I am pretty sure that you will get to where you want faster.

Just like World's Best Martial Artist, I do not read Reverend Insanity for fights. The story itself is intriguing without fights

 

Yea those guys, and true the manga is awesome, sadly I was just at 56 chapters because the chapters were updated lately if I remember correctly, an early reader...
*RAMBLING HERE
I agree with your opinion related to the story being intriguing without the fights, just the MC gives you the chills of how cold, ruthless and cruel he is, the novel's story and the manga's story link well honestly, guess I was at those chapters were he was training/taking a break-> ( well who wouldn't after that period of time in the jungle) so it left me in a state of guessing what will happen and I believed that which the MC would train then fight, kill..., enters in that mysterious place and fight, kill..., then he gets something op op and yea, still my fault for not having the patience to read more.

 

This is a major spoiler but he took another identity and was forced to get rid of his of Gu worms and use a completely different fighting style since he was using a different path.
It is very satisfying.
The one punching everyone gets boring very fast. Admittedly this novel had it at the beginning but it did stress that strength path was dying and is limited

 

I would like to revert the question and ask why people like overly kind MC that always gets into trouble and risk their life to save completely strangers. I can't understand why someone would like those hero-type characters that go around saving everybody.