Discussion Why Xianxia/Wuxia/Xuanhuan are generally repetitive and low quality?

Most of the problems people bring up are not really genre problems but rather things that can pop up in a wide variety of genres.

As for why repetitive novels pop up on NU, of course it is going to be a combination of what is popular with chinese readers, western readers and the translators themselves.
Someone that can read chinese would most likely find far more variation from any of the genres.

 

The problem is that I don't think any of these are wuxia novels. I haven't read the others, but "My Father in Law is Lu Bu" definitely isn't even though it tacks on a bit of wuxia terminology. The others don't seem like they fit either. And that's the reason for my objection - you seem to be basing your comments on books that aren't even based on wuxia novels in the first place so it just weakens your argument.

 

The 5th option is the closest to the correct one.

The reality is that Xianhuan is a genre almost exclusive to webnovels and in China they're considered equivalent to trash by people that care about literature...

Also, the webnovel model of China pays authors per word count, so they need to milk the novel as much as they can once it gets popular, which involves adding repetitive arcs, wasting time praising the MC, adding more harem members for no reason and what not.

It's not really the author's fault, but more of a fault of the system. When they need to release a big word count daily 7 days a week, they just don't have the time to carefully plan a good story, they just need to dish out whatever goes through their head to meet their quota and get their paycheck.

If someone made a properly paper published xianhuan novel, it would probably be of better quality, but... I dunno if this ever happened.

 

Honestly, I wasn't really trying to make an argument or trying to win the argument. It's enough to make you understand that I don't intentionally downgrading the genre.
Oh, about those 3 examples are wuxia or not, It's an excellent point. NU tagged those 3 as Wuxia, but you can say that it is not a pure wuxia as well. Personally, I don't really care which genre is which, as long as it is a good writing.

 

But, I haven't really see any higher literature that has a wuxia tag on it. The best Chinese classics that I've read is RoTK, Dream of the red chamber, Journey to the west, Deer&Cauldron, and Water Margin. I always try to benchmark the entire literature to those 5.
Imo, Water Margin and Condor heroes are actually at the same level.
About the cliche, you're completely right. I think it's inevitable to some genre indeed.

Do you have a good recommendations for the best wuxia you've ever read? I'd love to read your recommendations.

Yes! I completely agree. The webnovel qidian system is just ruining the entire genre ;-;

 

IIRC the entire Chinese Webnovel scene is like that, not just Qidian... >.>

Hence why it's such a widespread issue and stuff~

 

You do realize that this only leads to mediocrity? Just a flood of trash that exists for no other reason because its read out of boredom... or worse a sense of duty to what once was a good novel... as if struggling thrue 300 shitty chapters you will be rewarded with *gasp* a arc with a passible plot! Before descending back into little more then literary word sewage for the next three arcs.

Half the crap we read isnt much better, but I will give it to the authors of other genres, they atleast try to improve their writing quality rather then just the speed they vomit it out.

 

Quality and quantity don't go hand in hand.

 

It's not that they're not pure wuxia - it's that they don't seem to be wuxia at all. They just seem to insert some martial arts powers into the story, and that's not really what wuxia is.

To your greater point, I'd still say that it's the reader's fault. Sure a lot of good Chinese novels are untranslated, but there are plenty of good ones out there that are. If readers gravitate towards the junk, then it's natural for the translators to follow.

 

That's an interesting view. Then, what do you think is the appropriate definition for Wuxia?

From the wiki, Wuxia is literally meant: 'Martial Heroes'. It is basically a superhero (Like @Shio said) like Marvel, but with the limitation of the realm just in the mortal realm. They won't be as powerful as a God, just like in most Xuanhuan and Xianxia do.

Also, do you think NU is wrong to tag those novels as Wuxia? If so, what do you categorize them as?

 

blame qidian...... ehem it like blame youtube cuz why prank video is popular~ sure there high end prank but isn't most prank kinda low quality?
from simple view, author plus reader plus publisher those three~ add with translation then plus translator

 

Wuxia is supposed to be a genre so the books that fit within its envelope should be the ones that adhere to its genre conventions. To put it another way, a wuxia novel should use wuxia concepts as a central element of its story. For some of the examples you brought up, they care so little about this that none of this comes across in the story description. While it's still possible that these can still contain enough wuxia elements to be considered in the genre, I don't think that this is very likely.

As I stated earlier, the one that I have read is "My Father in Law is Lu Bu". For anyone unfamiliar with it, it's about a modern man who travels back into the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and takes part in (changing) the events of that story. I'm going to go over the genre labels it has on NU and discuss them a bit:

Action - this shouldn't be a genre to begin with.
Adventure - I'm not even sure why this is considered to be distinctive enough to be a genre.
Drama - ditto for this one. It makes sense as a film or stage genre, but not as a literary one.
Harem - the book doesn't have much of a harem, but it does have one so this fits.
Historical - this one is fine.
Martial Arts - this is also fine.
Mature - this isn't a genre; it's an age recommendation.
Seinen - ditto.
Tragedy - the book is not a Tragedy any more than it is a Comedy or a Romance.
Wuxia - while the book has a few wuxia elements, they're not very important for most of the story and they mostly just exist as impromptu superpowers.

 

That's a very interesting perspective. So, in other words, if the superpower of the story is not important to the plot, then it is not the genre?
For example, a story about a normal guy have the superman as his father-in-law or a slice of life about a normal guy just somehow indirectly involved in the superman universe, then it is not considered as a superhero genre?
So, it is only appropriate to call it a superhero fiction if the MC is the actual superhero or villain?

What about an elf living in a modern world without magic and unable to cast magic, having a discrimination just like black people do. Would you call that a modern fiction or a fantasy fiction?
According to your view, then you will choose modern fiction, because the 'elf' as a fantasy origin is irrelevant and just there as a discriminatory factor.

 

THIS.
Not so much the extras but the MOUNTAINS! Oh, my lord! How many mountains have been trampled and stomped and turned into dust in these novels?! Like, fine if you kill people. Give it a few years and you'll have a new civ. But mountains? There ain't no mountain that grows on a tree! ARGHGHEAFHIAEFDIKUHJASDKJHBAEDFS!

Spoiler

I swear to all hells, if one of you links me a novel with mountains growing on a tree, ima reincarnate you -.-

 

Honestly, the way my head feels right now, I'm tempted to suffer thrue the effort just to find one so I can be reincarnated...

 

It depends on what the genre is and how central its concepts are to the story in questions. The reason why it doesn't work for wuxia is that it's not really about superpowers or even martial arts. It's actually a social genre about societies and how people interact with them and with one another. Strip out that aspect and the story in question isn't wuxia any more.

If the fantasy aspect isn't relevant to the story then it's not really a fantasy novel any more. In your example, if you switch your elf with a Martian does it change the story in any significant way? If it doesn't then why should the genre be any different? Genres should only be defined by elements that are important to the story in question; for this purpose it makes sense to just disregard all the irrelevant elements.

 

Yes, I think I understand your view quite clearly now. That was a refreshing perspective.
I do agree the aspect that the genre should be the central piece of the main plot as well.
Perhaps, we could call the other minor genre as a 'Subgenre'? Was it appropriate to call it with such term?
Anyway, Thx for replying, ToastedRossi.

 

Genres aren't about whether one of its elements is present in a work. A genre is what that work is about and it should be a major part of how the story functions. A subgenre is a bit of a different animal that what you're proposing. A subgenre is still a genre; it just fits within the definition of a larger genre and is specialized and distinctive enough to be its own category.

For the example you brought up, something like the Magical Realism subgenre would be a good fit. However, note that this subgenre is still very much a fantasy story and that the fantastical elements of the story are still important to it.